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This shouldn’t be happening in a country which is often (wrongly) touted as having one of the greatest government-run health care systems in the world by liberals and progressives. However, certain parts of Canada, which actually permit private health clinics, are seeing a booming industry develop as people are sick of waiting huge amounts of time for routine procedures thanks to government-run health care.
Fox News reports:
Private for-profit clinics are a booming business in Canada — a country often touted as a successful example of a universal health system.
Facing long waits and substandard care, private clinics are proving that Canadians are willing to pay for treatment.
“Any wait time was an enormous frustration for me and also pain. I just couldn’t live my life the way I wanted to,” says Canadian patient Christine Crossman, who was told she could wait up to a year for an MRI after injuring her hip during an exercise class. Warned she would have to wait for the scan, and then wait even longer for surgery, Crossman opted for a private clinic.
As the Obama administration prepares to launch its legislative effort to create a national health care system, many experts on both sides of the debate site Canada as a successful model.
But the Canadian system is not without its problems. Critics lament the shortage of doctors as patients flood the system, resulting in long waits for some treatment.
“No question, it was worth the money,” said Crossman, who paid several hundred dollars and waited just a few days.
Health care delivery in Canada falls largely under provincial jurisdiction, complicating matters.
Private for-profit clinics are permitted in some provinces and not allowed in others. Under the Canada Health Act, privately run facilities cannot charge citizens for services covered by government insurance.
But a 2005 Supreme Court ruling in Quebec opened the door for patients facing unreasonable wait times to pay-out-of-pocket for private treatment.
“I think there is a fundamental shift in different parts of the country that’s beginning to happen. I think people are beginning to realize that they should have a choice,” says Luc Boulay, a partner at St. Joseph MRI, a private clinic in Quebec that charges around $700 for most scans.
The critics of the private clinics in Canada are angry because ti means some people are getting better care outside the government system on their own dime, how dare they. Again, the liberal mindset is prevalent here which states that we shouldn’t lift everyone up to a better level of care, we need to tear it down so everyone has equal access to crappy care instead of using the free-market to improve it.
One year for an MRI! That is insane and I cannot believe some people in this country think the government will be our solution in health care. We had a family member in the hospital last year and they had a MRI later that very day as opposed to waiting a year in Canada.
Canadian citizens have seen the writing on the wall and it is not shocking to see many of them step up and beyond the government care-rationing to get better care outside of the terrific “free” health care they get from their obscene taxes.
On the topic, here is another perfect example of where the CanadaCare system comes up short forcing a baby to be sent to Buffalo, NY for treatment:
A critically-ill premature-born baby from Hamilton is all alone in a Buffalo, N.Y., hospital after she was turned away for treatment at local facility and transferred across the border without her parents, who don’t have passports.
Ava Stinson was born Thursday at St. Joseph’s Hospital, 14 weeks premature.
A provincewide search for an open neonatal intensive care unit bed came up empty, leaving no choice but to send the two pound, four ounce baby to Buffalo.
This is the failure of the Canadian health care system, not US immigration laws.
Hot Air elaborates:
First, the child would have gotten care in the US, too, regardless of insurance status. People get emergency care regardless in this country. There is a difference between health insurance and access to care that some people elide for purposes of political argument. No one gets turned away from emergency care for lack of ability to pay.
But why wasn’t there a NICU bed for the child in the entire nation of Canada? The government of Canada won’t pay for more. They don’t exist to expand supply to meet demand; their single-payer system exists to ration care as a cost-saving mechanism. In a free-market system, supply expands to meet demand, which is why Canada could subcontract out to a US hospital for capacity. Michael writes that paragraph as if it was mere luck that an NICU bed happened to be open in the US, but that’s a function of the system, and not luck. These parents are separated from their child at the moment through the fault of Canada’s government and not the US.
Stunning how a baby would be forced into the United States for health care since Canada has such a great health care system, right? The next question is where the United States will send children when we can’t get the proper care under Obamacare.
So the bottom line is that some parts of Canada are opening the door back up to private health care to meet the demand while the United States, under the Obama administration, will be pushing for a socialist system. How fun.
Who’s in the mood to wait 1 year for a MRI? Not me!
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I’m not sure how having a government option would cause a hospital to turn a patient away. That part of this article makes zero sense to me. To me it sounds like you’re trying out cases of bad decisions to make the government option sound scary.
I also have not heard that the government here is stating that they do not want people to get better care on their own dime, so that statement also doesn’t make any sense to me.
“Again, the liberal mindset is prevalent here which states that we shouldn’t lift everyone up to a better level of care, we need to tear it down so everyone has equal access to crappy care instead of using the free-market to improve it.” -Nate
Where is your evidence that the government of the US does not want people to get good care outside of their government option?
I’m also wondering why Canadian’s stay in Canada if health care is so bad there. It does not appear to cause them to leave Canada as some US citizens leave Mass. I am not saying Canadian health system is better than the US but it does not appear to be something that is causing them to either protest or leave. Especially when leaving may not be all that hard.
How much does it cost to receive health care in a private clinic on your own dime? These people must be awfully wealthy to afford treatment for say, “A fractured hip.” It would cost 10’s of thousands of dollars to diagnose and treat that here. I know I could not afford it. Seems to me that those who are running to these private clinics are wealthy people. Possibly people receiving “elective” treatments. Even in the US, private insurance companies do not often cover “elective” treatments. Though some will allow a relatively low number of elective treatments such as Chiropractic and Acupuncture Treatments.
I’d much rather fight Obamacare with educating the nation that there is “Affordable Health Insurance” options out there. All the money being spent towards a government option could be going towards advertising the private insurance options that are out there that are affordable. Also advertising options for those who can not afford private health insurance, such as medicaid.
It is true, there are options out their for each and every American whether it be private insurance or government options that are already in place for the poor.
http://the-reaction.blogs.....adian.html
It looks like the baby shipped to Buffalo was due to not enough beds, not for any other reason. So this one was surely nothing to do with government health insurance. Neonatal intensive care is not just an issue in Canada, but all over the United States. It is very common that babies are shipped long distances in the US for special care, not only ICU, but also for congenital birth defects. Babies come from all over the south to All Children’s Hospital here in my town. It’s actually next door to the hospital I work for.
We have a Ronald McDonald’s house here for the parents of these children because they can not afford a hotel stay for the duration of their child’s care here.
Bad example there Nate.
Nate’s link “A provincewide search for an open neonatal intensive care unit bed came up empty, leaving no choice but to send the two pound, four ounce baby to Buffalo.”
Kendale,
“So this one was surely nothing to do with government health insurance.”
That is not true at all, you’re ignoring the larger picture. I think you need to learn more about the Canadian system.
Also, it wasn’t a bad example, it is perfectly valid. I know you didn’t read everything I posted above. They would not have sent the baby to the US if a suitable bed could be found in Canada.
Canada lacks that kind of care for one reason, it’s expensive and the government controls the hospitals! Therefore, they have not expanded in that area nor does the government want to pay for it.
Thus, when they needed a bed for this type of care, they couldn’t find one after searching so they sent the baby to Buffalo.
Kendale, you’re missing the larger picture as to the reason why Canada has a shortage of this type of care and doctors/nurses in general. There is a major shortage of care due to the “free” insurance provided by the government so they have to ration who gets it and who doesn’t.
To this question:
“Where is your evidence that the government of the US does not want people to get good care outside of their government option?”
For example, say that 75% of the country is satisfied with their health care and insurance. The other 25% lack insurance or are dissatisfied with their care. Instead of bringing the 25% up to the better level, the government-run Obamacare will force many of the 75% down to a lower level with fewer choices. It’s called “fairness” in the minds of liberals. Since 100% doesn’t have the absolute best, they want to tear it down so everyone has equally crappy care and no options. For another example, see Canada and the point of the story above about how private clinics are booming where they’re allowed. People want choices in health care, not waiting 1 year for an MRI so that everyone gets to have an MRI for free. You see now?
The same liberal mindset is seen in education, such as the DC voucher program which was producing positive results yet they cut it because it couldn’t support 100% of students. Instead of letting some students get better educations, they cut the program so that all students “fairly” had crappier education.
Next, onto this:
“I’m not sure how having a government option would cause a hospital to turn a patient away.”
Because they have no capacity and a shortage of beds, nurses, doctors, you name it. If the government controls the price, like they already do in Medicare and Medicaid, then hospitals will not be able to invest in new personnel and equipment. You see? Thus, just like the baby above, the hospital, nor any others in that entire province, had capacity or the ability to provide that care.
The government cannot “guarantee” coverage to everyone because it cannot afford to. It’s a pipe dream, a total lie.
The only way the government can provide coverage to every single person is to cut down on quality and ration access to it. So yes, you’ll have care, just not on your time schedule. Thanks to the government, you will be waiting a year for an MRI or other basic procedure because the government won’t buy more MRI units.
Next, this:
“I’m also wondering why Canadian’s stay in Canada if health care is so bad there.”
So, he whole part of the story about private health clinics now booming in Canada went past you? I mean, people are not satisfied with waiting a year for a MRI on their government-run crappy insurance, they’re going elsewhere for care and paying out of pocket on their own.
I don’t have time to address everything, but go read the stories of people who are diagnosed with cancer in Canada and then die before the government allows them to receive preliminary treatment. There are many stories like that. The average wait time is something like 6 months from diagnosis to beginning treatment. I know people in the United States who are diagnosed and start treatment the same day or next day, because we have the capacity to do so. Canada does not.
Government care-rationing forces patients to be turned away since the government cannot provide quality care to every citizen, it is not feasible.
Here’s a BBC article on just what you were talking about Nate. It’s entitled “Many UK Cancer Deaths Premature”.Funny but they envy the United States way of treating cancer.Hmmm! It can be found at :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/h.....117561.stm
Thanks DD, that is exactly what I’m speaking of with regard to government-run health care.
The stories exist everywhere though people don’t believe it since they didn’t hear it on the CBS Evening News or something.
Why on earth would we want to follow a failing model? It is illogical to watch something fail and then do the exact same thing expecting it to succeed.
I have read and heard about government health care failing in many countries. That is not news to me.
“That is not true at all, you’re ignoring the larger picture. I think you need to learn more about the Canadian system. ”
I am not ignoring the larger picture. I have already stated that I know the larger picture on other articles on this site.
If the government has provides a public option I understand the possibilities of it being at better competition with the private options. I understand the possibly implications that go along with driving out private insurance. I understand how medicare mandates cost of care. I see it and I live it everyday I go to work.
It just seems like a very big accusation to say that if a public option becomes available the entire world of health care in the United Sates is going to completely change and go down the tube. That is a GIANT accusation.
For fear of repeating myself I posted about 5-6 comments on insurance on the “Obamacare Article” so I will leave this one short.
I understand all of what you said Nate in your article and your comment. I have done the reading and research. I am not for a government run system in the slightest bit. I am just dumbfounded how any country can run it’s health care system into the ground and at the same time call themselves a good/smart country. It’s just very hard to fathom in this day and age. I mean I do understand that the education in this country is rather poor. But once you have done 4+ years in college I’d like to think that your mind has been opened enough to have a better grip on things.
Perhaps we need to consider the education of the politicians we elect before we vote. I mean schools in my county require many college professors to have doctorates to teach, and give them the encouragement to do so by paying those who dont, a far less wage.
I understand many lawyers get into politics, which I find to be a bad thing, when I think of lawyers I think of crooks.
I’d say leave health care in the hands of health care professionals. If the government wants to help create better health insurance for it’s country, why not allow the health care providers devise the plan?
Just a thought.
“I am just dumbfounded how any country can run it’s health care system into the ground and at the same time call themselves a good/smart country.”
That’s the other issue. Health care in the United States is not a “crisis” nor has it been run into the ground.
We have the most advanced, most developed health care on the face of the entire planet. We have the most skilled physicians and best health care staff on the planet. People with difficult to treat conditions come to the United States to get care. Our medical advances have bettered the world.
The media has driven this point and too many people now believe it, though they get quality care whenever they visit their doctor. This “crisis” is pushed by politicians, the same ones you despite, Kendale.
Polling shows the vast majority of Americans are satisfied with their insurance and care, despite minor complaints we all have about everything.
The “crisis” is being driven by politicians who want to further an agenda.
“It just seems like a very big accusation to say that if a public option becomes available the entire world of health care in the United Sates is going to completely change and go down the tube.”
Then you, my friend, are the one who needs an open mind on this topic. Some of us have done the math by watching other countries go down this road already of government-run health care.
Why are we, as Americans, so arrogant to think that our incompetent, inefficient government will do a better job at health care than Canada or Europe? It’s absurd to the say the least to implement the same failing policies.
We need to emphasize the free market right now, not push more failing government regulation.
“I mean I do understand that the education in this country is rather poor. But once you have done 4+ years in college I’d like to think that your mind has been opened enough to have a better grip on things.”
Way to use facts and avoid personal insults to advance your case. Stay classy.
Obama today talks to group about health care___pre-screened.. Sound like up-coming info-commerical…
……….
“Health Care Reform: Overview”
” 97.4% of Massachusetts Residents Now Insured!”
http://www.mahealthconnec.....wn=default
“U.S. forces launch major assault in Afghanistan
Thousands of Marines try to root out insurgents from Taliban stronghold”
NBC News and news services
updated 11:31 a.m. CT, Wed., July 1, 2009
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/.....tral_asia/
Thought it should be mentioned.
Nate……..In regard to your 6:03PM post tonight I came accross this quote:
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble,finding it wheather it exist or not ,diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy.”
Earnest Benn…British publisher 1875-1954
“I mean I do understand that the education in this country is rather poor. But once you have done 4+ years in college I’d like to think that your mind has been opened enough to have a better grip on things.”
Way to use facts and avoid personal insults to advance your case. Stay classy.
That was not directed towards you or anyone in specific, It was directed at our government for not understanding that our health care system is better than it thought it was. So, I was not being unclassy, just a bit frustrated about government, sorry that you took it the wrong way.
you see here what you wrote?
“Why are we, as Americans, so arrogant to think that our incompetent, inefficient government will do a better job at health care than Canada or Europe? It’s absurd to the say the least to implement the same failing policies.”
That is exactly what I was directing my comment at that you called not classy, I was saying exactly what you were saying. If you read the rest about government officials needing to be educated on the things that they try to reform?
For the like 20th time, I am not playing socialized medicine advocate and I have heard the same things being said over and over and over, I got it a long time ago.
Well in that case I apologize for taking it the wrong way.
Sounds like we’re on the same page, just lost in message board translation. No worries.
Saddam Hussein faked weapons of mass destruction convinced Bush’s intelligence sources. So get off Bush back.
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 2, 2009
Saddam Hussein told an FBI interviewer before he was hanged that he allowed the world to believe he had weapons of mass destruction because he was worried about appearing weak to Iran,
http://www.washingtonpost.....04217.html
Regarding health care, allow me to tell a little story. My cousin was born in Israel with dozens of holes in his heart and a blocked aorta. Miraculously his ductus arteriosus remained open after birth and remained open on its own for the eight days until his heart condition was discovered. At that point there was a scramble to figure out what to do. The conclusion was that it was necessary to travel to America where all three of the world’s best heart doctors were located. Through as series of amazing miracles he ended up being treated by Hillel Laks at UCLA, who is considered by many to the best heart surgeon in the world. The point of this story is however that they refused to treat him in Israel. They simply had no doctors capable of carrying out this complex of a surgery. This relates because Israel has had partially socialized health care since it founding. And even though the conditions are becoming more capitalist there is still a dearth of top level expert due to the lower pay.
bdjnk
Sorry about your cousin. Glad it turned out well for him.
Is unfortunate we have Obama as President. I don’t like his policies. Can’t think of one I like. Our news media has been spell bound by him. As well as government money given to their owners as well as Acorn. All but one has dared to be fair, which goes noticed and publically desdaned by the ‘great one’.
Biggest of all his take over is 1/5 of our Nations economy, health care. Once grasped, he at his will, will increase tax in name of health care. I doubt Congress will be needed to do so.
Every word you spoke would occur in America and more. Leader of Russia and England has warned us of changes Obama heaps upon us in furious methodical unread bills. Shouting end of the world if not acted upon immediately.
His word spree out to comfort the masses but leads instead to his hidden agenda. Just as his bid to control the census would have tarnished the voting procedure.
A attempt to change number of times President can be elected is slowly surfacing. Our greatest President Washington refused to be King. Can not say that would be so of Obama.
Cracks in his amour has appeared. Some in news media have begun to question his god like actions. More and more he hides from questions and forced to hide within well chosen hand picked info-commercial and town meetings. Having a ex-campaign worker expell her cancer to support his health care. His hand & heart held out to her promising to help her. A well orchestrated event to bring tears to the eyes of a audience unfamiliar with the set up.
How ironic Hillary talked Obama into speaking out about Iran’s resent riots. With her husband previously a Obamaite. He was on path of larger government spending and health care as today. The beaten Republican party was brought in with Newt and control of Congress. Newt demanded and got balanced budget at Bill’s great dissatisfaction. Health care failed with Ted Kennedy vowing its return. As well as shore up social security.
We can only hope Obama meets his Bill Clinton Waterloo.
Was that supposed to be a response to bdjnk or was the story bdjnk gave a welcome to rant on about Obama being the devil again? lol
Bdjnk, it is a shame, the conditions around the world that force the world’s greatest minds and physicians to live in the United States rather than their home countries. It is a shame that the minds and physicians that make our health care system here to great are no able to bring the same blessings to the countries they were born and raised.
I am incredibly thankful for the countries of the world and the people they have produced that come here with their many blessings.
It is very clear that a striking number of our countries physicians were not born American. Not to take away from the physicians that we produce because many of these foreign born physicians attend our Medical Universities. It is a great blessing that we have so many Medical Universities, research hospitals, and the liberty to create so many advancements in medicine.
This alone is a good enough reason to fight against socialized medicine, not only in our country, but all around the world. It appears to be necessary to not only fight socialized medicine here in the states but to also educate the world on its detriments, and how beneficial it would be for the world’s countries to take a look at health care here.
It is obvious that the United States repeatedly tries to bring democracy and our way of government to other countries and perhaps if countries are willing to listen to us on this point, perhaps we need to use our abilities to also bring able health care reform in their countries, by this I mean, the health care we have today, not the one we are worried about having tomorrow.
Obama has not shut Fox news up yet and you will not control my remarks with your remark_”to rant on about Obama being the devil again? lol”
If you wish to disprove my remarks, that is reason for this site. Insulting belongs as a prelude to a bar room fight. Not here.
If you feel insulted by my comment, that is an issue you have to deal with on your own, I can’t assist you in that department.
My 237am comment was facts…not rants.
rant
1. Violent or extravagant speech or writing.
2. A speech or piece of writing that incites anger or violence
Kendale, To control and not assist, don’t start_ “to rant on about Obama being the devil again? lol”
Yea. Sure.
Thanks for your co-operation. Discussion of political nature, not cheap shots, is idea of site.
…
_”to rant on about Obama being the devil again? lol”
“I made no cheap shot.”
“Yea. Sure. “
Glad you cleared your rude statement. No need to be nuked again. Try sticking to political statements, please
Yes Father.
There was nothing rude to be nuked, but we all know, You Know Best.
You were wise to erase. Stay smart… Now, try writing political
Thanx for the compliment, it’s nice to be recognized for my wisdom and smarts. I wont write political because I am not a politician but I will give my two cents on political issues.
You see site is not for personal insulting. Not for jokes.
po·lit·i·cal
Pronunciation: \p?-?li-ti-k?l\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin politicus
Date: 1551
1 a: of or relating to government,
Now, try writing political
At end of each article_ “Be respectful or posts will be removed.”
I’m sure it’s not Websters dictionary either. Then again everything you define is for not being that I’m quite sure I know the definition of the word political. As I stated in my last comment, I will give my two cents on what I read here. That is generally what blogging is all about.
Main Entry:
blog Listen to the pronunciation of blog
Pronunciation:
\?blo?g, ?bläg\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
short for Weblog
Date:
1999
: a Web site that contains an online personal journal with reflections, comments, and often hyperlinks provided by the writer ; also : the contents of such a site
— blog·ger noun
— blog·ging noun
A blogger is one who contributes to a blog and blogging is the act of contributing to the blog. So I will continue to contribute my two cents on the articles and things I see here. Feel free to ignore what ever you choose.
I suppose a person who constantly loses in a foot race will soon stop and try another sport.
Perhaps you can figure out my riddle. It is only slightly political and simple.
……….
Webster ??? Yes.
po·lit·i·cal
Pronunciation: \p?-?li-ti-k?l\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin politicus
Date: 1551
1 a: of or relating to government, a government, or the conduct of government
http://mw1.m-w.com/dictionary/political
The only riddle is your warped sense of reality. Plus, I love riddles.
Personal insult. When one can not win politically, he resorts to his best defense.
I am not in a contest so therefore this is nothing to win, nice try again to pretend I am having some sort of battle with you, when you are simply battling your own mind. Perhaps it’s similar to the example you gave about Obama controlling the minds of congress, their minds can not withstand the power of President Obama. Only thing is, what is controlling your mind?
Then why the need to insult. A sign you feel threatened.
Logic controls mine, not cheap shots from the gutter.
Sorry this long week-end I did not join you down there.
I don’t feel the need to insult. And how in Gods name can you threaten me in any way? It is utterly bizarre that anyone on the internet feels as though they pose a threat to anyone else. I don’t have cheap shots from a gutter either, and for you to say “Down There” is your way is pretending you are somewhere like “Up There” wish is incerdibly laughable.
That is why I get such a kick out of you and respond to your self fulfilling comments. It is funny.
Of couse
Nate NUKED YOU for no good reason. “warped sense of reality” is not a insult.
A 4 year college grad., RN, may go to Doctor school or work with missionary , with high grades, and really cares for his patients. Who still behaves likes the streets.
Of course I hit the “report comment” this week-end. Was it 2 or 3 times. I always do since you were nuked.
I am glad I make you laugh…You said you are here for entertainment…
Sorry you could not be political this week-end. I asked many times.
Discipline. Control yourself.
You do like to imply don’t you. Don’t let actual sratements geet in the way of a good twist… Fairy tells may come true.
Insults are “cheap shots from a gutter”. And you do it. Your fear to admit it does not change that fact.
Another assumption, that is your specialty.
I said implied, so you come back with assumption. Your imagination is null. You are a copycat.
Your best one this week-end was saying my definition was not from webster dictionary, which is was. Shoud have checked before saying that. Makes you look foolish you know. Red faced.
Anyhow, market opens at 830am my time. One of my stocks is at low chaneling price.
Prehaps you can discuss politics tomorrow. Or will it be geography ?
If you make it quick, I will have time for one more of your one-liners
I just might spend some time tomorrow and list all your implied/assumptions since you accused me. Am afraid you can not name many on my part.
Unfortunately for you my statement was not an assumption. Just old fashion fact.
Kendale claims “I don’t feel the need to insult”. well then, stop…Even after being nuked you continue. Seems you do have a need. Have not seen somebody nuked here in a looong time.
Yes Sir All-Knowing All-Mighty.
Trying to get on my good side does not work as well as it use to. You are losing your cuteness.
If you can’t do your job of politics here, I am going to buy a long chain and tie you up in the back yard. I will buy you a nice dog house.
“Service sector shrinks less than expected in June”
“Real estate, finance and insurance, and food and hotel companies were among the six industries that reported growth last month.”
“The 11 sectors that posted declines included agriculture, retail, health care, educational services, and corporate support and management. Utilities were flat.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/a.....us_economy