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Note: See update below for latest on the House passing this pile of garbage.
It has been called the largest tax increase in history and the House of Representatives is set to pass it soon, with President Obama’s full support. It is called the “cap and trade” legislation aimed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions as part of the global warming hoax, and you will pay through the nose for it.
Report from the Examiner:
House set to pass historic Climate Change bill. After weeks of compromise Obama announced the House is set to pass the Climate Change bill called Waxman-Markey. The key compromise delays regulation of farms for 5 years and gives the regulatory powers to the Agriculture Department not EPA. Midwestern farm states where concerned about EPA’s analysis of ethanol production which questions its true role in carbon reduction when including indirect upstream and transportation costs.
The bill is expected to add $10 per month to the average utility bill, costing the average U.S. household between $80 and $175 per year, The bill is expected to reduce imported petroleum from nearly 900 million barrels per to year in 2007 around 500 or 600 million barrels per day in 2030. The specific numbers are highly debatable. But most Americans agree action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is required soon. Support for Climate Change action falls off sharply among households earning less than $50,000 per year. Wealthier suburbanites support the bill.
The bill called a carbon cap and trade program reduces the amount of carbon allowed to be emitted by industry over time. A key compromise in the bill to coal states is giving nearly 85% of the carbon credits for free. A similar approach in Europe in 2005 has failed to reduce carbon emissions there. The carbon market remains weak during the Great Recession as economic output has declined and not reducing any carbon. The European approach to giving away its carbon credits is seen as a major flaw in the proposed U. S. system. By giving away the carbon allowances, industry is not as quickly stimulated to reduce carbon emissions.
The goal is to reduce carbon emissions by 17% by 2020 and 85% by 2050. The price of carbon is expected to rise over time as the amount of carbon allowed to be released is reduced. Given the recent Wall Street scandals, confidence in a carbon cap and trade program based on a Wall Street model are fraught with uncertainty. Another key compromise was allowing “offsets” that account to reforestation and prevention of deforestation, highly questionable and difficult to calculate the true emissions reduction. But as Bismark said “politics is the art of the possible”. While fraught with uncertainty and amid great compromise, it looks like the U.S. will have a carbon reduction plan to bring to the Copenhagen Protocol in December.
The Wall Street Journal discusses it further:
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has put cap-and-trade legislation on a forced march through the House, and the bill may get a full vote as early as Friday. It looks as if the Democrats will have to destroy the discipline of economics to get it done.
Despite House Energy and Commerce Chairman Henry Waxman’s many payoffs to Members, rural and Blue Dog Democrats remain wary of voting for a bill that will impose crushing costs on their home-district businesses and consumers. The leadership’s solution to this problem is to simply claim the bill defies the laws of economics.
Their gambit got a boost this week, when the Congressional Budget Office did an analysis of what has come to be known as the Waxman-Markey bill. According to the CBO, the climate legislation would cost the average household only $175 a year by 2020. Edward Markey, Mr. Waxman’s co-author, instantly set to crowing that the cost of upending the entire energy economy would be no more than a postage stamp a day for the average household. Amazing. A closer look at the CBO analysis finds that it contains so many caveats as to render it useless.
For starters, the CBO estimate is a one-year snapshot of taxes that will extend to infinity. Under a cap-and-trade system, government sets a cap on the total amount of carbon that can be emitted nationally; companies then buy or sell permits to emit CO2. The cap gets cranked down over time to reduce total carbon emissions.
To get support for his bill, Mr. Waxman was forced to water down the cap in early years to please rural Democrats, and then severely ratchet it up in later years to please liberal Democrats. The CBO’s analysis looks solely at the year 2020, before most of the tough restrictions kick in. As the cap is tightened and companies are stripped of initial opportunities to “offset” their emissions, the price of permits will skyrocket beyond the CBO estimate of $28 per ton of carbon. The corporate costs of buying these expensive permits will be passed to consumers.
The biggest doozy in the CBO analysis was its extraordinary decision to look only at the day-to-day costs of operating a trading program, rather than the wider consequences energy restriction would have on the economy. The CBO acknowledges this in a footnote: “The resource cost does not indicate the potential decrease in gross domestic product (GDP) that could result from the cap.”
More from the WSJ on why this is being pushed through so quickly, perhaps because the public is starting to catch on to the global warming hoax:
Among the many reasons President Barack Obama and the Democratic majority are so intent on quickly jamming a cap-and-trade system through Congress is because the global warming tide is again shifting. It turns out Al Gore and the United Nations (with an assist from the media), did a little too vociferous a job smearing anyone who disagreed with them as “deniers.” The backlash has brought the scientific debate roaring back to life in Australia, Europe, Japan and even, if less reported, the U.S.
In April, the Polish Academy of Sciences published a document challenging man-made global warming. In the Czech Republic, where President Vaclav Klaus remains a leading skeptic, today only 11% of the population believes humans play a role. In France, President Nicolas Sarkozy wants to tap Claude Allegre to lead the country’s new ministry of industry and innovation. Twenty years ago Mr. Allegre was among the first to trill about man-made global warming, but the geochemist has since recanted. New Zealand last year elected a new government, which immediately suspended the country’s weeks-old cap-and-trade program.
The number of skeptics, far from shrinking, is swelling. Oklahoma Sen. Jim Inhofe now counts more than 700 scientists who disagree with the U.N. — 13 times the number who authored the U.N.’s 2007 climate summary for policymakers. Joanne Simpson, the world’s first woman to receive a Ph.D. in meteorology, expressed relief upon her retirement last year that she was finally free to speak “frankly” of her nonbelief. Dr. Kiminori Itoh, a Japanese environmental physical chemist who contributed to a U.N. climate report, dubs man-made warming “the worst scientific scandal in history.” Norway’s Ivar Giaever, Nobel Prize winner for physics, decries it as the “new religion.” A group of 54 noted physicists, led by Princeton’s Will Happer, is demanding the American Physical Society revise its position that the science is settled. (Both Nature and Science magazines have refused to run the physicists’ open letter.)
The collapse of the “consensus” has been driven by reality. The inconvenient truth is that the earth’s temperatures have flat-lined since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02. Peer-reviewed research has debunked doomsday scenarios about the polar ice caps, hurricanes, malaria, extinctions, rising oceans. A global financial crisis has politicians taking a harder look at the science that would require them to hamstring their economies to rein in carbon.
The truth has been pouring out, slowly but surely. Politicians like Al Gore cannot control all the information in the day and age we live in which means voices of reason and intelligence on the “global warming” issue are coming forward to debunk it. Reasonable evidence points to global warming being a natural cycle, not man made in any way, nor can we change it if we wanted to.
The legislation before congress is simply more ways of controlling and taxing the population at the behest of liberal special interest groups.
John Stossel of ABC News has been one voice trying to cut through the political garbage:
The debate isn’t closed, it hasn’t even begun because the climate change zealots don’t want their assertions to be challenged since they cannot stand up to scrutiny. The evidence against man-made global warming is piling high yet congress is going to pass some sham legislation for a non-existent hoax and we’re all going to pay more for it.
This is the time to call your legislator and demand they vote not against this wealth grab by the government. These are the same politicians who preach global warming yet do not change their own habits of taking jets everywhere they go, same old liberal hypocrisy. Surprise, surprise.
Update:
Thanks to 8 Republicans who chose to betray their country, this piece of garbage passed the house 219 to 212 with 44 Democrats voting against it as well.
Here are the offenders:
For the record, here are the Democrats who voted “No”:
Altmire
Arcuri
Barrow
Berry
Boren
Bright
Carney
Childers
Costa
Costello
Dahlkemper
Davis (AL)
Davis (TN)
DeFazio
Donnelly (IN)
Edwards (TX)
Ellsworth
Foster
Griffith
Herseth Sandlin
Holden
Kirkpatrick (AZ)
Kissell
Kucinich
Marshall
Massa
Matheson
McIntyre
Melancon
Minnick
Mitchell
Mollohan
Nye
Ortiz
Pomeroy
Rahall
Rodriguez
Ross
Salazar
Stark
Tanner
Taylor
Visclosky
Wilson (OH)
Hopefully this will die in the Senate despite Obama’s pleas that it be passed before America has a chance to examine this farce.
The best quote about this whole issue:
Never have so few stolen so much from so many to achieve so little.
It is a shame that the government is passing legislation based on junk science aimed at increasing taxes and killing economic growth in the energy sector. The carbon credit market is the biggest sham there ever was and people like Al Gore will be profiting dearly from it as companies barter their carbon credits to stay in business, it’s insane.
The heat is now on the Senate to put this to bed and not impose junk-science legislation on the American people thieving more of our wealth.
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“NO YOU WON’T” !
Who are the 8 republicans that voted yes?
Oops, my mistake, you gave a wonderful picture LoL
I noticed it here
http://michellemalkin.com.....publicans/
everyone feel free to point out specifics that as bad
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi.....:H.R.2454:
“Bill what Bill”?
http://www.powerlineblog......023909.php
DDMao
Is bill on Obama’s website ? Has this been done before ? House has passed ! But there is no complete bill ? How can it be sent to Senate ?
Is this example of unconstitutional acts that Conservative Gal spoke of ???
DDMao
Here is a controversal link
http://www.webcommentary......ate=090624
“The days of science taking a backseat to ideology are over”
President Barack Obama April 2009
GEE I guess not! They suppressed a report by the EPA that would have harmed getting his bill passed last night.
See:
http://www.ibdeditorials......1757213432
DDMao
Great link…
Kendale Sturdivent Jun 27th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
“everyone feel free to point out specifics that as bad”
That’s some of it. With Kendale studying health care and this and other stuff, he should change from being “neutral” to our side.
“However, such measures will not produce long-term economic prosperity. Making a transformational shift away from fossil fuels and traditional energy jobs toward alternative energies and green jobs carries serious risks—most important, that subsidizing economically less efficient energy sources will hinder economic growth. When the propped-up industry produces less output for every dollar spent than in industries already operating in the market, overall economic efficiency declines. Moreover, artificially creating jobs through government mandates—as opposed to creating a need for jobs organically, through market demand—carries the risk of creating supply where there is insufficient demand and thus pulling resources from more productive uses.[47] In other words, creating jobs in alternative-energy sectors will ultimately reduce jobs in conventional energy and other sectors, as overall energy costs rise. The end results are reduced overall productivity and higher consumer costs.[48]”
http://www.manhattan-inst...../myth3.htm
Not only don’t the SOB’s not read it they drag Patrick Kenndey out of drug re-hab to vote on this.Nothing like passing legislation with a clear head.It can be found at:
http://www.politico.com/b.....ml?showall
DDMao
Does not suprise me. Did they not drag a congressman back from a funeral for bill, that they also did not read, for him to sign. Obama waited and signed days later.
On Teddy’s death bed they will drag him in to vote.
Obama’s change.
O.K. HERE’S THE LAST STRAW! IN JANUARY 2008 SEN.OBAMA HAD AN INTERVIEW WITH THE SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE IN WHICH HE SAYS”UNDER MY CAP AND TRADE PLAN AMERICAS ELECTRIC RATES WILL SKYROCKET”IT CAN BE FOUND AT:
http://www.youtube.com/wa.....lTxGHn4sH4
DDMao
Although his lips were moving I tend to belive him then than now. I suspect he wants his bill passed then watch our utilities rise. Would not be surprised if Congress is not needed to raise energy tax.
Our Dictator and his czars will run this Country. Waiting for brown shirt organization and gun control to appear passed some late night with no news release or reading of bill.
Kendale……..These are things not to like about the bill WITHOUT EVEN READING IT.Once we are able to read it imagine what we will find.I suppose President Obama thinks ONLY PEOPLE EARNING MORE THAN $250,000 USE ELECTRICITY?
This rant isn’t aimed at you specifically but just a response to the question you posed @ 3:28 PM this afternoon.
Hey, that’s a great picture you got there, Nate, with Mr. Gore blowing a lot of hot air!
You guys are hilarious. LoL Yea, my light bill is already nearly $400 a month during the hot Florida summer, all I need is an increase, perhaps I will no longer be able to afford air conditioning.
Go Obama! But if I can write off improvements to my home to make it more energy efficient, that helps a bit, not much though. Tax write offs don’t mean much. Perhaps Obama will just write me a check to update my house. Then tax me later for the amount of the check and call it even? haha
Kendale you’re going to have to explain your post further.It has me confused.
Kendale
I am afraid you do not understand. You surely do have a high $400 a month light bill. But all utilities will go up. Not just lights. Electricity, gas, and sewer. Don’t forget all you buy will go up. You gas for car, repairs for car, food, furniture , etc. Anything you buy. Because all increase cost of goods will be pasted on to consumer.
Enjoy.
I was making a joke, sorry that it was not spelled out quite well enough for the two of you.
Kendale
I am afraid your high GPA would fall with your poor answer.
Maybe now you will answer DDMao
Kendale
I know you are a fair,intelligent, well education person. Wanting to broaden your knowledge.
Let’s talk about the bag of potatoes I will buy from grocery store.
A farmer will plant, dust for weeds and whatever else a farmer does. All fuel, utilities, and transportation of products of making those products and transporting to his farm As well as those he incurs at his farm, and sending to where he sells it. All down the line this increase cost is passed to the cost that you pay for the potatoes. You burn gas and expense to car repair picking up groceries at store and taking home. You burn utilities cooking them then cleaning the dishes.
Do you get the idea ???
This applies to all things that has transportation, utilities, fuel, etc necessary to make what you buy.
I.m afraid Uncle Obama is not is not going to rebate the extras tax you pay even though you make less than $250,000 a year.
Since higher cost for products in America, exports will go down and jobs will be lost.
Businesses will close because high prices cause people to buy less. Just as Americans have been buying less gas lately.
Kendale wrote “everyone feel free to point out specifics that as bad”. I know you meant it. DDMao and I took you at your word and followed your wishes.
Your reply was shallow. I expected more from you. I did not catch your joke. Was your shallow answer the joke ? DDMao and I spent a lot of time wanting to please you. To answer your question.
There is a old saying…
“Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.”
I am sure next time here you will have read material provided and come up with some conclusions. I await your interpretation.
Nate, I think you should post stories about Obama’s birth certificate!
Bill,
That wasw a complete waste of your time. I am not an idiot though I see that you would like to think that I am. Everything that you just tried to explain to me, I already know. I told you that I was making a joke.
My joke was about Obama saying that he will give a tax credit to those who update their homes to make them more energy efficient while at the same time raising taxes which would end up cancelling each other out, or even rather the taxes will outweigh the tax credit. Plain and simply. Sometimes you really bother me with your idea that I am a complete dunce.
You consistenting read way to deeply into my comments and lash back claiming that I meant one thing when I did not mean anything outside of the words I use.
Forgive me if I refuse to ever comment back to you when you completely take my words out of context. it takes up way to much time that I am no longer willing to waste trying to explain things in such a lenghty manner that should be understood quite easily.
Kendale
“sorry that it was not spelled out quite well enough for the two of you.”
Just helping you…
Kendale
Are you going to answer DDMao now ? We spend a lot of time…
Kendale wrote “everyone feel free to point out specifics that as bad”.
What question are you refferring to. I do not see a question posed to me. I explained my joke about Obama. I see he is asking about a bill. I did not make a single comment about a bill nor have I used that word either. I gave a link to the cap and trade legislation. If you are having trouble, I appologize. try googling the words “active united states legislation” then read the “cap and trade legislation text H.R.2454
Kendale
David Letterman cracks bad jokes late at night on TV Monday through Friday.
I would know what you know if you actual gave it on this political site.
Routine is I quote you then give my response. That is time you answer that my response is way off and prove it.
Sorry your feelings are hurt. I have no empathy, I draw on logic istead.
Try sticking with issues rather than avoiding them.
Kendale
Re-read …Bill Hedges Jun 28th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
You have no response to bad we posted ???
You asked for something and it was given.
Kendale wrote “everyone feel free to point out specifics that as bad”.
If you are happy with your answer, fine.
I asked you to read the legislation and point out the lines that are bad. If you cut and pasted parts of the legislation that you do not agree with, great. If you are looking for me to argue your opinion on which lines you do not like, well that is not what I ever intended on doing. I was simply looking to hearing your opinions, not arguing against your opinions.
Strange as it may sound, I do not disagree with your opinions everytime.
What I saw were comments about not being able to read a bill. About a drunk being pulled out of rehab to vote, another one not. I got you, Bill, psting a snippit from a news article. None of that is what I asked, so there is nothing for me to respond to if a response is what you’re looking for.
Go to the cap and trade legislation, read the text, post the lines you think are bad. If you need a response, I will respond. I have not given my viws on it line for line. I simply made a joke. The joke is that in the legislation, there appears to be a part where it states that there will be tax credit given to those who improve the energy efficiency of their homes and businesses. There will also be a refund to those who can not afford to do so.
The joke I got was o.k. it’s nice to let me write off home improvements, but I thought that we already had that ability to write off home improvements. Ok, its nice to get a tax refund for poor people who can’t afford to make the improvements, though if they can’t afford it, how will they do it.
The second half of the joke is, Obama thinks that because we are getting this spoon full of sugar we are going to be happy about how all of this increase in tax, and all the things that follow it as you, Bill, stated for me so I do not have to type it again, ok. They are not ok, the screw us in many ways and we get a couple dollars in return for the thousands more we will end up spending for our necessities.
I thought my joke stated that without me having to use so many words, apparently it did not.
Kendale
Joke is you joke. Political site !!!
Kendale said “I asked you to read the legislation and point out the lines that are bad”
What Kendale wrote earlier…”Kendale wrote “everyone feel free to point out specifics that as bad”.
D.D.Mao Jun 27th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
“Kendale……..These are things not to like about the bill WITHOUT EVEN READING IT.Once we are able to read it imagine what we will find.I suppose President Obama thinks ONLY PEOPLE EARNING MORE THAN $250,000 USE ELECTRICITY?”
“This rant isn’t aimed at you specifically but just a response to the question you posed @ 3:28 PM this afternoon.”
Kendale,
“Go to the cap and trade legislation, read the text, post the lines you think are bad. If you need a response, I will respond. I have not given my viws on it line for line. I simply made a joke. The joke is that in the legislation, there appears to be a part where it states that there will be tax credit given to those who improve the energy efficiency of their homes and businesses. There will also be a refund to those who can not afford to do so.”
Tell you what I will tell you what to think. Save us all time. i don’t blame you for not giving your view now… But discussion is point here not distraction of jokes.
Kendale said “I asked you to read the legislation and point out the lines that are bad”
What Kendale wrote earlier…”Kendale wrote “everyone feel free to point out specifics that as bad”.
……….
Kendale wrote “You consistenting read way to deeply into my comments and lash back claiming that I meant one thing when I did not mean anything outside of the words I use.”
Actually you re-wite yourself, not me
Kendale Sturdivent Jun 27th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
everyone feel free to point out specifics that as bad
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi.....1:H.R.2454:
I gave a link with that statement, perhaps I should say.
“O.K. Billy. Now youuuu, take a look at this link. And theeeen after you read the peice of legislation at this linke. Point out the specific items in the peice of legislation that you do not find to be a good idea”
Or I could simply give you a link to the cap and trade legislation, which so happens to be what Nate was writting about, and ask you to point out the specifics that you find to be bad just as I did in the statement you “half qouted”
ok, I’m done with this one.
peace
Kendale……….As your post of 9:55 stated we can’t read the text of the legislation due to nearly 300 pages having line from this page pulled and line so and so from this page pulled etc. But that was the point …..not having it be read before it was passed. When it gets into a form we can digest (and people more knowledgeable than us can translate)we will have more to discuss than the methods used to get it through the HOUSE OF REPREHENSIBLES !I’m sure the Senate will have it’s own kabuki dance with this.
As always looking forward to your veiws on this…..DDM
Kendale
First you say
“You consistenting read way to deeply into my comments and lash back claiming that I meant one thing when I did not mean anything outside of the words I use.”
Then you say
“I thought my joke stated that without me having to use so many words, apparently it did not.”
Should I or should I not read thing into your comment ?
Which is it.
Kendale
Is DDMao and I both confused ???
Kendale…….To support what was said in my post of 10:46 PM the Library of Congress obviously pulled the bill because when you click on the link it reads “Page cannot be found”
We will have to wait to see what is contained in this mirage !
DDMao
Kendale wants us to read what he wants us to read and give comment on what we don’t like. Then he will respond.
I am not confused anymore !!!
He does not wish to give his view except in reply. Mayybe…
Kendale……….As your post of 9:55 stated we can’t read the text of the legislation due to nearly 300 pages having line from this page pulled and line so and so from this page pulled etc. But that was the point …..not having it be read before it was passed. When it gets into a form we can digest (and people more knowledgeable than us can translate)we will have more to discuss than the methods used to get it through the HOUSE OF REPREHENSIBLES !I’m sure the Senate will have it’s own kabuki dance with this.
As always looking forward to your veiws on this…..DDM
Totally understandable, your comment that is. When I looked at the link i gave, before I gave it, I noticed that it really didn’t explain anything. It looks like it just gave bullets from the actual proposed peice of legislation. This is why I did not give my response to it, rather I made a joke about the refund/credit thing because I have heard Obama preach to the choir about how the legislation will help people by making their homes and businesses more energy efficient thus reducing their electric bills and such, while giving people tax write offs for it and refunds to the poor.
I agree, it is rediculous that they can pass legislation without allowing the citizens of the us to read it and get with their representivies to pose their vews on it. I agree this is remarkable that Obama thinks that it is ok to do.
Bill,
You are confused. DDMao appears NOT to be confused. perhaps the link is bad, but if you go to google and type in active united states legislation and click on the first result it takes you to all the active legislation and allows you to read the cap and trade peice
it also shows others, like the Tobacco one I comented on previously.
Again, DDMao appears to be on the ball, Bill, you appear to not so much be. You are again, making more out of this than is necessary and DDMao grasps my attention with being understandable and level.
ale said “Totally understandable, your comment that is. When I looked at the link i gave, before I gave it, I noticed that it really didn’t explain anything. It looks like it just gave bullets from the actual proposed peice of legislation. This is why I did not give my response to it, rather I made a joke about the refund/credit thing because I have heard Obama preach to the choir about how the legislation will help people by making their homes and businesses more energy efficient thus reducing their electric bills and such, while giving people tax write offs for it and refunds to the poor.”
If so, why did you say “Point out the specific items in the peice of legislation that you do not find to be a good idea”
D.D.Mao Jun 28th, 2009 at 12:04 am
“Kendale you’re going to have to explain your post further.It has me confused.”
Kedale
Is not understable to be confused when link prvided does not work ? Seems logical to me !!! But not o you ??? And you state “When I looked at the link i gave, before I gave it, I noticed that it really didn’t explain anything”
Who is not ” being understandable and level.
“
Kendale
Next time use link that explains something.
Be logical
Kendale
Note…Person giving link does not expect person reading it to critique link. Person giving link uses it as back-up to his position
I second that DDMao. I can’t wait to discuss this cap and trade legislation with you. It certainly sounds like something worth fighting against. For once you and I can argue together against a bad idea that appears to be on the democratic agenda. This was people like Bill can understand that I go for what I feel is right. I do not fight for this because that are, “Left”, so to speak.
And to clarify, when I said I go for things that I feel is right I did not mean right wing, republic, conservation, or any other group I may be labeled as talking about. I mean I go for things that I feel are justified.
Just to help a bit
check out http://www.senate.gov
click on legislation and records at the top menu
then click active legislation
I’m not sure why the link wont work, but its easy to find your way there from http://www.senate.gov
Kendale
I don’t blame you for not commenting on my past 5 comments. It certainly makes you look bad. But I was uses your quotes to quote you. So no interpretation on my part.
When you attempt to put me down you are making mistake, but please yourself.
When you discuss instead of joke, insult, or play games you will find I will treat you better.
I showed how you contradict yourself. That happens to players and those covering up their errors. You give your views and you won’t have that problem.
I did not contradict myself. I am not attempting to put your down. I joked because humans do that sort of thing to make others laugh. I was not trying to be condescending, I was hoping to make you and DDMao laugh with my joke. I am not trying to insult you or play any games. I simply got fed up with your trying to interpret the things I say to make them seem negative. I made no error nor do I feel the need to cover up ANYTHING.
Like I said at least 4-5 times now, I gave a link to the legislation that Nate was referring to. I asked for anyone willing, to read it and list things from it that are bad in their opinion. You chose not to do so. Insetad you chose to twist things as you always do and start a back and forth with me about something other than the invitation I posed. Excuse me for not wanting to talk with you when you consistently try and bring the attention to something other than the invitation I proposed.
If you want me to say I am a bad guy, I insult, joke, play games, make errors, cover them up and anything else you want to throw at me fine. I will respectably agree to diagree, now move on Bill.
Kindale
My 5 comments are there to be seem. You deny the obvious
You yourself said of your link “When I looked at the link i gave, before I gave it, I noticed that it really didn’t explain anything. It looks like it just gave bullets from the actual proposed peice of legislation. This is why I did not give my response to it”. So you ask others to give bad points from it.
Next time use link that does ” explain something”. Using link that doesn’t is stupid. And that you did knowingly according to you..
A honest person does not contradict themselves often.
You say you disagree, but that is a lie and you know it.
Maybe DDMao will say I am wrong about what I have said on this article about you. More than likely he will stay out of it ???
Facts are facts especially when in writing. These are in writing and can be double checked on this article for truth.
You wish to end this, OK. Repeat again another time, and I will be here to keep it real.
Yes, you will be here to banter on about things that have absolutely nothing to due with the topic at hand. Enjoy yourself.
Rather than read the legislation yourself and give your own opinion of you, you rather argue about pointless things. What does that say about Bill?
Kendale
I will contue to doctument inconsistences, lies, and whever else you throw out.
I have read on the legislation and my opposion has been on this article and others.
……….
Bill Hedges Jun 28th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Kendale
I know you are a fair,intelligent, well education person. Wanting to broaden your knowledge.
Let’s talk about the bag of potatoes I will buy from grocery store.
A farmer will plant, dust for weeds and whatever else a farmer does. All fuel, utilities, and transportation of products of making those products and transporting to his farm As well as those he incurs at his farm, and sending to where he sells it. All down the line this increase cost is passed to the cost that you pay for the potatoes. You burn gas and expense to car repair picking up groceries at store and taking home. You burn utilities cooking them then cleaning the dishes.
Do you get the idea ???
This applies to all things that has transportation, utilities, fuel, etc necessary to make what you buy.
I.m afraid Uncle Obama is not is not going to rebate the extras tax you pay even though you make less than $250,000 a year.
Since higher cost for products in America, exports will go down and jobs will be lost.
Businesses will close because high prices cause people to buy less. Just as Americans have been buying less gas lately.
Kendale wrote “everyone feel free to point out specifics that as bad”. I know you meant it. DDMao and I took you at your word and followed your wishes.
Your reply was shallow. I expected more from you. I did not catch your joke. Was your shallow answer the joke ? DDMao and I spent a lot of time wanting to please you. To answer your question.
There is a old saying…
“Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.”
I am sure next time here you will have read material provided and come up with some conclusions. I await your interpretation.
……….
Kendale said “Rather than read the legislation yourself and give your own opinion of you, you rather argue about pointless things. What does that say about Bill? ”
Like Obama I can double task
……….
Kendale wrote “Yes, you will be here to banter on about things that have absolutely nothing to due with the topic at hand. Enjoy yourself”
I do enjoy keeping you honest.” Verified so easily…
I have nothing to interpret, nor do I need a big brother to keep me honest. I am not dishonest and I find it amusing that you feel the need to appoint yourself to monitor me at all.
http://www.angelfire.com/.....klist.html
Kendale
Your link title__”Narcissism Symptoms Checklist
How to Spot An Emotional Vampire ”
Are you playing Doctor agin ???
Kendale Sturdivent Jun 29th, 2009 at 2:43 am
“Yes, you will be here to banter on about things that have absolutely nothing to due with the topic at hand. Enjoy yourself.”
“Rather than read the legislation yourself and give your own opinion of you, you rather argue about pointless things. What does that say about Bill?”
I thought, as a RN, you were going to stop your convenient insulting diagnose here. Although you stated you like doing it. Sort of like a snake charmer in olden days. Didn’t you say that recently.
Later when I have time should I find that comment. You know, make a fool of you once more ???
Your words do come back to haunt you when you contradict yourself.
You can never make a fool of me. When you make attempts to make a fool of me, you show how much of a fool your are.
Only a fool can feel the way you do about trying to bring people down. Only evil feels prosperity at the downfalls of others.
If i am a snake charmer than you are a true snake in the grass and I laugh.
Bill, I want you to do anything it is you want in life man, be happy, because I am. Nothing that you can say or do can ever touch me. You can try until your heart gives out to prove any point that you want but when you think about it, what does it mean? Nothing.
I will always laugh at you when you try to attack me rather than attack the things that have meaning in your life.
Or wait, do I really mean that much to you that you will work endlessly night and day to try and prove or disprove something about me. Truly Bill, I am honored by the diligence that you put forth in matters that involve me. I am glad that you find me so special. You’re like my new wife or something. Shall we give our vows?
Kendale
I have gather my information, don’t have in form yet to post.
Contracdicting statements to me means you say one thing and then in short order say something different. That makes a person a fool in my book. Can’t keep his story streight.
By catching you contradicting, that makes me a fool ???
What logic. I guss a guy who went to jail after getting to be RN, would think such a thing !!!
Kendale,
Some times it is best to ignore people who don’t have anything to say. It keeps them from posting 50 useless responses. I have employed this “selective response” system and found that it is very effective in reducing the frivolous postings.
Kendale
Kendale Sturdivent Jun 21st, 2009 at 9:39 am
“Of course I am not your typical RN. I have a background of being a 9th grade HS drop out. A criminal with a lenghty juvenile criminal record (including violent and drug charges) and a very small adult record. The day after I walked across the stage for my RN graduation I went to jail for aggravated assault with a deadly women / domestic violence”
I am familiar ,from watching T.V., what a jail wife is. Sorry, not interested…
Kendale wrote ” You’re like my new wife or something. Shall we give our vows? ”
Pointing out your contradicting statements are not personal attack. Is caused discussing and pointing our your inconsistencies.
Try to join the polite circle, this is not “the streets”…
Bill,
I understand you hate me an all that I am. I know you hate that I can be a hoodlum growing up in a poor neighborhood. Selling crack smoking weed, getting drunk and sexing plenty women all the time, then go to college, become an RN and working beyond to become a physician.
I know it eats you alive that I do what I want no matter who stand in my way. People like you, I eat for breakfast and laugh at you while I push on and accomplish my goals. It was people like you that inspired me to be successful even if only to spite those who said I can’t.
See, I love you, I want you to throw everything you can at me Bill so I can destroy every picture you try and paint of me. Give me your all, don’t waste an efforts on anything but to destroy me so I can eat it like steak. I am ferocious, I am vicious, I will devour your every effort. You are nothing and you can’t handle it. It drives you insane to know that nothing you do can have any effect on me but laughter and me coming here now to mock you.
Keep up the good work beautiful and save a kiss for me before nap sweetie. Mwuaaah!
JD
You and David Letterman have much in common. Cheap shots which are only sprinkled in truth
** Nuked by Admin **
Note: Keep it appropriate please, thanks.
Kendale
You are sick…That’s entertainment ???
No, Bill, I really love you, and I want you to love me to. Wont you be mine? Screw proposition 8. Lets get hitched.
Kendale
You need to learn discussion is not personal attack. A tactic in debate is to find discrepancies in opponents points.
Contradicting statement is pointed out to discredit opponents stand.
Nate Jun 23rd, 2009 at 9:57 am
“Yes, I have noticed…They have been doing this for so long, their pride makes it hard for them to look at things objectively.”
Nate said
“I know when the discussion moves from arguing points to personal insults against the conservatives that the liberals have lost this argument already. It’s not a mental disorder, just standard operating procedure since liberal policies can’t stand up to scrutiny, thus their proponents must resort to new lines of attack to draw attention away from the fact that they cannot rebut truth and fact with failure and government.”
“Move on, better luck next time.”
My showing your contradictions made my point and lead you to personal insults. Nate explained it best.
Careful, Kendale. I know you are joking but Nate and CG don’t take kind to this kind of humor. Especially, when it is directed at their followers.
Still, thanks for the laugh. This site is not youdecide but IhateObama. Which I can understand since McCain lost but it is best if we all take the high road and keep it as clean as possible.
Again, I have learned that not everyone has a sense of humor and most of those people vote republican. See I made a joke and poked the conservative hornets nest.
JD
Exactky what has Kendale been saying recently about Conservatives or Republican ? Say at least in last four comments.
You can’t even admit the truth. You twist.
“Again, I have learned that not everyone has a sense of humor and most of those people vote republican.”
Maybe you’re just not funny, that is a possibility which you probably haven’t yet considered. Consider it.
Bill…………Kendale and I are on the same page on this legislation……against it!As shown by his post below.STOP THE NIT-PICKING and read what is written before the knee-jerk response! The members of this site JUST MIGHT HAVE VIEWS THAT DON’T FOLLOW PRE-DETERMINED IDEOLOGIES.(THAT GOES FOR BOTH SIDES)
“It certainly sounds like something worth fighting against.For once you and I can argue together against a bad idea.”………Kendale to D.D.Mao 9 June @ 12:33 AM
…………………………………
Kendale …….The one time you SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THE HIGH ROAD(AND TAKEN JD’s ADVICE in his 12:21pm POST)YOU DIDN’T.(your 12:48 PM post)You complained about name calling and then go into that scorching tirade.Even this G.I. was taken back by the extent of it.
Gentlemen(?)there are ladies on this site not to mention we SHOULD TRY to practice civility under any circumstances .You want to know why we don’t get more than the same eight people on this site? Well the exibition that has been going on for the past 12 hours could have a good deal to do with that.
I was going to ignore it but it digressed to a point that it can’t be ignored nor deemed acceptable.Perhaps ignoring the site is the only alternative.Lets not get to that point.
DDMao
I am not for this legislation.
If you do not understand my pointing out Kendale’s incosistances, let me know. You stay.
hahaha… Now you are being funny. I am proud of you.
Is it because this site use to be unbias which attracted multitudes of people willing to give their 2 cents and now that it is IhateObamapolitics.com it only attracts the fringe people and people who are gluttons for ridicule?
Hrmmm..
IhateObamapolitics.com is available to register, perhaps I’ll put that on the agenda before someone snatches it up, thanks for the suggestion.
For the record, I don’t hate Obama, I hate his policies which are rooted in failure and wealth destruction. He is just a person, like you or I. He does, however, wrongly believe that socialism and big government will solve problems when the adults in the room, with history’s backing, know that isn’t the case.
Was it the same adults who elected a spend-aholic republican president?
JD,
So now Bush was a “spend-aholic” but you constantly defend Obama’s $1.8 trillion deficit and massive government growth.
Compared to Obama, you can’t use that tired rhetoric anymore about Bush’s spending. Obama has now made Bush look like a staunch fiscal conservative, which he wasn’t. I disagreed with Bush’s spending, except on defense, and I disagree with Obama’s even bigger spending.
If you called out Obama on spending too, you might have credibility. Bush was wasteful, Obama is beyond wasteful to the point of being counter-productive in building private wealth.
I love it now when liberals still try to whine that Bush was a reckless spender in light of watching Obama since January.
It is classic.
I was just pointing out the irony of “conservatives” voting in “spend freely” Bush for 8 years.
My thoughts on Obama’s spending is that he is looking to make cuts and raise money in other places. I think time will tell if Obama is a wasteful spender or not. He is looking to half the budget deficit by the end of his first term. I guess we will see.
I also think it is ridiculous how Conservatives are completely forgetting that Bush handed Obama the worse Budget in history and Bush had 8 years in office.
Now you are complaining that Obama hasn’t fixed it in the 5 months he has been there. The question is if we should put off fixing the broken Health care system, energy, and immigration just because Bush was an idiot and dropped the ball on all the domestic issues this country faces.
Give me a break. I think Obama will be significantly making dents in the budget deficit with in two years of his presidency.
If not than I will be eating my words.
JD,
This came to mind when I read your post:
Main Entry: gull·ible
: easily duped or cheated
Obama has created a $1.8 trillion deficit which is what he claims he’s going to cut in half. That’s like saying I’m going to take up smoking specifically so I can quit and have people congratulate me for quitting smoking. First off, anyone who doesn’t work for the administration, like the CBO, knows that won’t happen. Second, it’s junk math in the first place considering he’s only going to keep adding to his budget for his social programs.
You have been easily duped and/or cheated into believing their propaganda about cutting his own massive deficit.
Bush didn’t hand Obama a trillion dollar deficit, Obama is 100% responsible for that since he wrongly believes government spending solves problems, it does not.
“Now you are complaining that Obama hasn’t fixed it in the 5 months he has been there.”
Actually, I don’t think the government is good at “fixing” anything nor do I expect it. I do expect competence, something which is still lacking in economic policy.
“The question is if we should put off fixing the broken Health care system, energy, and immigration just because Bush was an idiot and dropped the ball on all the domestic issues this country faces.”
Again, you said fixing and I know you meant nationalizing, at least when it comes to health care and energy. You should pick your words better next time. Nationalizing health care isn’t fixing it, it’s destroying it. Same goes for energy. Anyone with intellectual honesty knows that. You buy the administration’s propaganda, which is fine, but I deal in facts outside of that so I’m unable to drink the kool-aid with you.
On immigration, I don’t think Obama will get far with amnesty just like Bush didn’t either.
Better season up your words, a special blend of herbs and spices might make them delicious.
“Obama Plans to Cut Deficit In Half, Disregards National Debt”
“So Obama saying he is going to cut the DEFICIT doesn’t really mean a whole lot, especially when he quotes $1.3 trillion in deficit (which is pre-“stimulus”).”
“Our current national debt is $10.8 trillion dollars.”
http://www.shocked.org/ob.....onal-debt/
JUNE 9, 2009 “Canada’s ObamaCare Precedent
Governments always ration care by making you wait”
“ronically, as the U.S. is on the verge of rushing toward government health care, Canada is reforming its system in the opposite direction. In 2005, Canada’s supreme court struck down key laws in Quebec that established a government monopoly of health services. Claude Castonguay, who headed the Quebec government commission that recommended the creation of its public health-care system in the 1960s, also has second thoughts. Last year, after completing another review, he declared the system in “crisis” and suggested a massive expansion of private services — even advocating that public hospitals rent facilities to physicians in off-hours.”
“In Canada, private-sector health care is growing. Dr. Day estimates that 50,000 people are seen at private clinics every year in British Columbia. According to the New York Times, a private clinic opens at a rate of about one a week across the country. Public-private partnerships, once a taboo topic, are embraced by provincial governments”
“In the United Kingdom, where socialized medicine was established after World War II through the National Health Service, the present Labour government has introduced a choice in surgeries by allowing patients to choose among facilities, often including private ones. Even in Sweden, the government has turned over services to the private sector.”
http://online.wsj.com/art.....96929.html
August 13, 2003
“The Historical Lessons of Lower Tax Rates”
by Daniel J. Mitchell, Ph.D.
“There is a distinct pattern throughout American history: When tax rates are reduced, the economy’s growth rate improves and living standards increase. Good tax policy has a number of interesting side effects. For instance, history tells us that tax revenues grow and “rich” taxpayers pay more tax when marginal tax rates are slashed. This means lower income citizens bear a lower share of the tax burden – a consequence that should lead class-warfare politicians to support lower tax rates.”
“Conversely, periods of higher tax rates are associated with sub par economic performance and stagnant tax revenues. In other words, when politicians attempt to “soak the rich,” the rest of us take a bath. Examining the three major United States episodes of tax rate reductions can prove useful lessons.”
http://www.heritage.org/r...../wm327.cfm
“Learning to Use Herbs and Spices: Herbs and Spices for Pork”
By Brenda Hyde
“Herbs that go well with pork are caraway seeds, coriander, cumin, curry powder, dill, garlic, rosemary, sage, fennel, savory and thyme. For fall dishes try combining cloves and apples with other herbs such as sage and thyme. On the spicy side you can use chilies, chili powder, cayenne pepper or paprika.”
http://oldfashionedliving.....erbs5.html
I LIKE CUMIN AND CAYENNE PEPPER MYSELF. TEX-MEX
“Video: Energy Czar hasn’t read cap & tax”
June 29, 2009
by Ed Morrissey
“I don’t think it’s “unfair” to ask a policy expert whether they’ve read a policy they’re promoting on national television, nor do I think it’s unfair to expect politicians to have read bills before voting on them. Will Barack Obama read the bill before signing it, assuming that it passes the Senate? Or will he just read “vast portions” of the 1300-page nationalization of the American energy sector?”
http://hotair.com/archive.....ax-either/
“Democrats buried mortgage scandal under the rug five years ago!”
Friday, February 27, 2009
From New York Times
September 11, 2003
By Stephen Labaton
“New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae”
“The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.”
“The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.”
“The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt—is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.”
Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.
http://canadafreepress.co.....ticle/8870
OUR ECONOMIC COLLAPSE COULD HAVE BEEN AVERTED HAD CONGRESS LISTENED TO GEORGE W. BUSH…
“Pro: Cap-and-trade system rewards special interests”
By ANDREW P. MORRISS Saturday, June 20, 2009
“Cutting carbon-dioxide emissions thus isn’t a matter of tweaking an existing process or adding a filter to a smokestack—it requires either dramatic changes in energy production or major reductions in energy use.”
“For example, the federal Energy Information Administration’s calculation of total system costs for land-based wind-generated power turn out to be more than 50 percent greater than conventional coal or natural gas power.”
“Solar photovoltaic electricity costs four times as much as power from coal or natural gas. Even if we could quickly increase wind’s contribution from the 1.3 percent of electricity it generated in 2008, and reduce the percentage generated from fossil fuels from 70.9 percent, the cost of doing so would be staggering.”
“Yet to actually reduce emissions, cap-and-trade must significantly raise energy prices, and so the price of everything made using energy will go up. Such widespread price increases will likely produce both inflation and unemployment, returning us to the stagflation of the 1970s.”
http://www.gazettextra.co.....interests/
WILL CAP AND TRADE STOP AMERIAN OIL EXPLORATION AND PRODUCTION ??? BECAUSE FOREIGN OIL DOES NOT HAVE ADDED TAX ???
“SEIU, ACORN, and the White House”
May 16, 2009
by WTH
“This is pretty strong evidence that ACORN’s and SEIU’s influence reaches not just to the White House but all the way into the Oval Office.”
http://theunionlabelblog......ite-house/
Nice website and way to add it is a banner on this site. Taking action this way is always productive rather than just complaining.
http://www.energytomorrow.....enter.aspx
“Inconvenient Truth: EPA Researcher Talks About Shelving of Report That Questioned Global Warming Science”
Fox News
Wednesday, July 1, 2009
“The most important finding was that EPA, in my view, needed to look at the science behind global warming and not depend on reports issued by the United Nations which is what they were thinking of doing and have done.”
http://www.prisonplanet.c.....ience.html
I don’t have a direct quote, but I could have swore I heard somewhere that the planet can adapt to anything if it is subjected to it long enough. That is the whole idea behind evolution. I believe I heard this at school in my biology class. Just as organisms adapt, the planet adapts.
Not that I am an advocate for world wide polluting of the air so everyone has the luxury of smoke stack factories and everyone driving around in their Sherman tanks, I mean SUV’s, but I’d be willing to bet the planet can adapt to such atrocities.
this bill is outrageous. Dems are running this country in to the ground, and I finally started to think people thought and knew that global warming was a big hoax, but i guess i was wrong.
The only reason this passed is because Dems in congress=radical left wingers(the majority) and the republicans in congress=regular democrats(except for a few)
OBAMA_SUCKS
Glad to see you back.
Yes, we have a few wolves in sheep clothing elected in disguise as Republican. We can hope their citizens recognize them for what they are. They are lowest form of life, deceivers.
Al Gore, in his campaign, vowed not to enrich himself, but has amassed $250 million to his coffers. Just another Madoff style scheme of biblical proportions. Republicans are cast a oil, gas, and nuclear whores, wanting no part of alternative energy. Our view of all energy was ignored to place us in inferior light.
I am firm believer in America and Capitalism. We made it through Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. So to, this will pass. Though with physical disconfort.
We still have the Senate. Hope they see the light.
Is the there a phobia named for those who fear democrats? I mean it is amazing how demonized the word Democrat is around here. God forbid someone checks the democrat box on their voters registration, they may as well be “the lowest form of life” for doing so, eh?
I did not say Democrat. I specified particular people for the most part.
44 Democrats voted against this bill in the House. 8 Republicans voted for.
“I mean it is amazing how demonized the word Democrat is around here. ”
In Germany they have simular law, there home utilies went up 25%
ok.
I agree. I am against a law that a President claims will lead to lower energy bills yet actually increase it, how absurd.
That is the absurd statement being made and why my party despises Obama.
This is another bill not read but passed by House. Beck show showed the complexity of this bill. Home energy standards are those of California. Will wall insulation have to be meet ? Causing lots of cost. House will be inspected. The expense to sell your house may be unbearable. Who knows ?
Should such bills become law, when so passing, results are not even known by Congress that passes it.
If energy use is reduced,still 20% of energy must be alternative energy. Does that mean closing coal plants ? I don’t know the answer.
That makes no sense to me.
Glenn Beck showed it perfectly I saw that to Bill. I saw this coming from the very beginning I told all I knew that Obama was not what he seemed, he wasn’t some in the middle politician who would bring both parties together. All he has done is gone way beyond what I even thought he would do, and I had absolutely no expectations for this guy and he somehow seems to be doing worse than I could have ever thought!
OBAMA_SUCKS
Yeah, Beck is great.
I remember you saying some of those things.
Obama’s friends, his secret background, his college years, and His voting record. All highly suspect.
Obama would change his stance to match more voters. Now he does as he pleases. Has he placed one bill on net for 5 days before signing into law ? I am not aware of one. Is lucky if Congress has chance to read before signing. This one was not even finalized before House voted for it. If these are not humongous warning signs I don’t know what is !
Don’t start me on his revenge tactics or association with Acorn !
His time with Bill Aryers and Chicago style Community service was training for what he is today.
Why would the house vote before something is finalized? Did Obama water board them? Sounds like the house needs to read before they vote.
Obama is getting his way. Must be signed immediate. Is not like he promised Americans that they could read and add input before he signed !
Obama is a dunce for believing his actions won’t catch up with him.
Exile him to Elba.
It’s the houses fault if they vote without reading, not Obama. Blame him if you want, but the House doesn’t have to vote for it am I wrong?
Since he told Congress it was matter of life or dealth (so to speak) it must be passed immediately. He certainly had a big role with Democrat control Congress.
“the House doesn’t have to vote for it am I wrong? ”
Obamaites are under mind controled. Why else would congress pass bill without reading. Not once, but many times. Is Obamite new age Government.