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Over the past few days, a leaked draft of the Kennedy health care bill, duly named so that Republicans will fear opposing it, was posted online for some examination. The contents of the legislation are disastrous and encompass all of the worst-feared aspects of government-run health care including oodles of new taxes, charges and penalties for non-compliance.
This will be long, but it is thorough. Keith Hennessey breaks it all down:
As the committee staff emphasized to the press after the leak, this is an interim draft. I assume things will move around over the next several weeks as discussions among Senators and their staffs continue. This is therefore far from a final product, but it provides a useful insight into current thinking among some key Senate Democrats.
Here are 15 things to know about the draft Kennedy-Dodd health bill.
1. The Kennedy-Dodd bill would create an individual mandate requiring you to buy a “qualified” health insurance plan, as defined by the government. If you don’t have “qualified” health insurance for a given month, you will pay a new Federal tax. Incredibly, the amount and structure of this new tax is left to the discretion of the Secretaries of Treasury and Health and Human Services (HHS), whose only guidance is “to establish the minimum practicable amount that can accomplish the goal of enhancing participation in qualifying coverage (as so defined).” The new Medical Advisory Council (see #3D) could exempt classes of people from this new tax. To avoid this tax, you would have to report your health insurance information for each month of the prior year to the Secretary of HHS, along with “any such other information as the Secretary may prescribe.”
2. The bill would also create an employer mandate. Employers would have to offer insurance to their employees. Employers would have to pay at least a certain percentage (TBD) of the premium, and at least a certain dollar amount (TBD). Any employer that did not would pay a new tax. Again, the amount and structure of the tax is left to the discretion of the Secretaries of Treasury and HHS. Small employers (TBD) would be exempt.
3. In the Kennedy-Dodd bill, the government would define a qualified plan:
1. All health insurance would be required to have guaranteed issue and renewal, modified community rating, no exclusions for pre-existing conditions, no lifetime or annual limits on benefits, and family policies would have to cover “children” up to age 26.
2. A qualified plan would have to meet one of three levels of standardized cost-sharing defined by the government, “gold, silver, and bronze.” Details TBD.
3. Plans would be required to cover a list of preventive services approved by the Federal government.
4. A qualified plan would have to cover “essential health benefits,” as defined by a new Medical Advisory Council (MAC), appointed by the Secretary of Health and Human Services. The MAC would determine what items and services are “essential benefits.” The MAC would have to include items and services in at least the following categories: ambulatory patient services, emergency services, hospitalization, maternity and new born care, medical and surgical, mental health, prescription drugs, rehab and lab services, preventive/wellness services, pediatric services, and anything else the MAC thought appropriate.
5. The MAC would also define what “affordable and available coverage” is for different income levels, affecting who has to pay the tax if they don’t buy health insurance. The MAC’s rules would go into effect unless Congress passed a joint resolution (under a fast-track process) to turn them off.
4. Health insurance plans could not charge higher premiums for risky behaviors: “Such rate shall not vary by health status-related factors, … or any other factor not described in paragraph (1).” Smokers, drinkers, drug users, and those in terrible physical shape would all have their premiums subsidized by the healthy.
5. Guaranteed issue and renewal combined with modified community rating would dramatically increase premiums for the overwhelming majority of those Americans who now have private health insurance. New Jersey is the best example of health insurance mandates gone wild. In the name of protecting their citizens, premiums are extremely high to cover the cross-subsidization of those who are uninsurable.
6. The bill would expand Medicaid to cover everyone up to 150% of poverty, with the Federal government paying all incremental costs (no State share). This means adding childless adults with income below 150% of the poverty line.
7. People from 150% of poverty up to 500% (!!) would get their health insurance subsidized (on a sliding scale). If this were in effect in 2009, a family of four with income of $110,000 would get a small subsidy. The bill does not indicate the source of funds to finance these subsidies.
8. People in high cost areas (e.g., New York City, Boston, South Florida, Chicago, Los Angeles) would get much bigger subsidies than those in low cost areas (e.g., much of the rest of the country, especially in rural areas). The subsidies are calculated as a percentage of the “reference premium,” which is determined based on the cost of plans sold in that particular geographic area
9. There would be a “public plan option” of health insurance offered by the federal government. In this new government health plan, the federal government would pay health care providers Medicare rates + 10%. The +10% is clearly intended to attract short-term legislative support from medical providers. I hope they are not so naive that they think that differential would last.
10. Group health plans with 250 or fewer members would be prohibited from self-insuring. ERISA would only be for big businesses.
11. States would have to set up “gateways” (health insurance exchanges) to market only qualified health insurance plans. If they don’t, the Feds will set up a gateway for them.
12. Health insurance plans in existence before the law would not have to meet the new insurance standards. This creates a weird bifurcated system and means you would (probably) be subject to a different set of rules when you change jobs.
13. The bill does not specify what spending will be cut or what taxes will be raised to pay for the increased spending. That is presumably for the Finance Committee to determine, since it’s their jurisdiction.
14. The bill defines an “eligible individual” as “a citizen or national of the United States or an alien lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence or an alien lawfully present in the United States.”
15. The bill would create a new pot of money for state gateways to pay “navigators” to educate people about the new bill, distribute information about health plans, and help people enroll. Navigators receiving federal funds “may include … unions, …”
This would have severe effects on the more than 100 million Americans who have private health insurance today:
* The government would mandate not only that you must buy health insurance, but what health insurance counts as “qualifying.”
* Health insurance premiums would rise as a result of the law, meaning lower wages.
* A government-appointed board would determine what items and services are “essential benefits” that your qualifying plan must cover.
* You would find a tremendous new disincentive to switch jobs, because your new health insurance may be subject to the new rules and would therefore be significantly more expensive.
* Those who keep themselves healthy would be subsidizing premiums for those with risky or unhealthy behaviors.
* Far more than half of all Americans would be eligible for subsidies, but we have not yet been told who would pay the bill.
* The Secretaries of Treasury and HHS would have unlimited discretion to impose new taxes on individuals and employers who do not comply with the new mandates.
* The Secretary of HHS could mandate that you provide him or her with “any such other information as [he/she] may prescribe.”
I strongly oppose this bill.
Of the numerous things which disgust me personally about this big government takeover of health care, the most egregious has to be that smokers, drinkers and people who harm themselves intentionally will pay the same rates as everyone else. That is totally wrong and immoral on many levels.
I, as a non-smoker who has never smoked, will be forced to pay for the healthcare on someone with smoking-related health problems. Once again just like the mortgage plans, the people who “play by the rules” will be hosed while everyone else abuses the system.
The next issue which I find disconcerting is the intrusion by the federal government into the rights of states to determine what is “qualified” health care. I assume many states will challenged this provision on 10th amendment grounds.
Beyond that, this bill introduces a bevy of new taxes for the government to collect. If I choose not to be part of a qualified health plan, such as I prefer to pay out of pocket, I will be taxed for that. That is insane and it’s complete government control over my health care options. This is the way of forcing everyone into the government system whether you want it or not.
Liberals have wrongly claimed that the government health care would be optional, we all knew better and this draft legislation proves it. Undoubtedly if this garbage were ever to pass, that part might be stripped out since it is terribly immoral and an invasion of my health care privacy. If I do not want to the government involved in my health care decisions, I should be provided that right. This legislation strips that right and then fines me if I do not comply.
This is the “CHANGE” we’re being given. More government control, higher taxes, bureaucrats making health care decisions, nationalizing industries and now forcing people into a government health care system.
You can examine the entire draft legislation here as a PDF.
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England leader tells un not to do this.
Obama with his broad paint brush said what he wanted. Teddy worked a rought draft.
Going back into our history, Why didn’t we not get this durning Billy Bob Clinton term_
“HILLARY CLINTON’S HEALTH CARE TASK FORCE”
- “In January 1993, Bill Clinton established the President’s Task Force on Health Care Reform chaired by Hillary Clinton. The Task Force members, hand-picked by Mrs. Clinton and a liberal planner, Ira Magaziner, proceeded to draft a health care bill in secrecy without regard to federal open meetings and open records laws.”
- “Following a lawsuit, and after vigorous and protracted opposition by the Clinton White House, a federal judge ruled that Mrs. Clinton violated federal open meetings laws, and ordered that records of the secret sessions be made public.”
- “The Clinton Health Plan was characterized by broad assurances from the Clintons and Ira Magaziner about the key issues of cost, taxes, bureaucracy, and consumer choice. Congress and the public soon learned that most of these assurances were contradicted by the plain language of the Clinton legislation.”
- “The Clinton Health Task Force vastly over-spent its budget of $100,000, eventually wasting $13.8 million of the taxpayers’ money– surely a metaphor for the entire Clinton Health Plan. (GAO Report)”
After the failure of this plan, Teddt bear Kennedy had this to say__
“Sen. Ted Kennedy, the chief Congressional proponent of socialized medicine, said earlier this year, “We’re going to get this done, and we’re going to keep coming back at it. If we have a big sweep for Democrats in the House and Senate, we’ll get single-payer [health care].” (Reuters, 6/17/96)”
Jail time and fines for Doctors. I kid you not. My link has Billy Bobs failed plan.
THANK YOU MONICA, I LOVE YOU.
DID YOU NOTICE HILLARY CLINTON HUGH COST OVERRUN. THAT’S GOVERNMENT FOLKS.
http://www.gargaro.com/healthcare.html
Do you complain about having being forced to carry approved car insurance?
JD
Car insurance is not required. You have choice not to drive. Take bus or walk. Is not social program. Bought through private company. Choice of buyer.
You must buy health insurance.
“Do you complain about having being forced to carry approved car insurance?”
Um, not all states force you to buy car insurance. Check New Hampshire and Wisconsin for example. Again, research helps your case before you speak. Plus, for states which do require insurance, like New York, it is not up to the federal government which insurance the state approves or what level is “acceptable.”
Not saying that’s good or bad but people still have the choice. I could move out of New Hampshire or into it depending on my preference. This federal bill will remove more of my personal rights on health care. It will not even let me choose to pay out of pocket with no insurance.
This is a state matter, not a federal one.
Your premise is faulty and wrong, better luck next time.
I had no premise… I simply asked a question. It is interesting that you mind went where it did though. Interesting, indeed.
Nate, you may need a vacation. You seem a bit wound up.
jd
“Do you complain about having being forced to carry approved car insurance?”
You premise is false. You don’t have to have car insuance as Nate has explained.
“Um, not all states force you to buy car insurance. Check New Hampshire and Wisconsin for example”
Read..There are places that can help your comprehension.
jd
My State, Missouri, does not require “approved insurance”. You premise is so faulty.
jd
If god forbid you were a teacher and asked such a question, I hope for your sake you have tenure. Otherwise, you might be looking for a new job. Questions must be asked in such a way that there is only one correct answer.
“I had no premise… I simply asked a question.”
The concept of the question was wrong in that you’re attempting to insinuate that we accept government mandated “coverage” in other things already.
You pointed to car insurance which is not a valid comparison since, as I pointed out, we have choices in car insurance or we can choose, in some cases, no car insurance at all.
Furthermore, as a better illustration, lets point to the failing social security program, something which is federally mandated and I cannot escape. The program is going bankrupt, just like government-mandated health care will.
In fact, health care is already bankrupt because we will run a deficit of $1.8 trillion and Obama still wants to enact it somehow.
JD, there is no good defense for this poor excuse of government thieving more of our rights.
“It is interesting that you mind went where it did though. Interesting, indeed.”
It is more interesting that you haven’t tried to defend this plan. I’m certain it is very difficult to rationalize in your head that it’s OK for government to mandate health insurance on someone who doesn’t want it.
This will be your gut-check moment, JD. Will you defend government-mandated “acceptable” insurance or won’t you?
My stance is simple. In the state of Texas we are required to have car insurance if you are to drive a motorized vehicle. There are a range of insurance policies that meet the state mandated coverages for this.
Among which the law is in place because if I am struck by an uninsured motor vehicle I have to pay for the repercussions and\or my insurance will.
By mandating that you must have insurance is a way to make sure that everyone is at least covered in the event of a major accident.
I believe this is what the plan is referring too. You of course feel like you should be able to stroll around with out insurance and when you have a heat stoke be rushed to the hospital and allow the state to pick up the tab.
From what I have read, there will multiple levels of insurance, however, you will have to have either large somes of money (if you are a millionare) or some kind of basic health insurance.
You crack me up with this idea that you should be allowed to not have coverage at all and then you turn around and complain that our government has to pay the tab for all the illegal immigrants who don’t have insurance or youth that can’t afford it.
As far as getting into smokers and such… If you are so offended about everyone having to pay more for premiums because of other people than you need to wake up and realize the insurance companies already do this.
Also under this logic, insurance companies should be able to charge more based on family history, food that you eat, and sports activities that you play. I mean, heart disease kills more people than smoking.
“You crack me up with this idea that you should be allowed to not have coverage at all and then you turn around and complain that our government has to pay the tab for all the illegal immigrants who don’t have insurance or youth that can’t afford it.”
Wow, you have really bought the big government-knows-best model haven’t you? It offends you to think that someone else believes the government shouldn’t be allowed to impugn socialist programs on people. I mean seriously, you’re joking right?
Also, JD, you’re missing the fact that there isn’t a difference between the government paying for health care as an insurance plan and the government paying for health care outright, it’s the same thing! It is still you and I the taxpayers.
“As far as getting into smokers and such… If you are so offended about everyone having to pay more for premiums because of other people than you need to wake up and realize the insurance companies already do this.”
Yes, but I can choose not to pay for insurance so that premise isn’t valid either. Furthermore, those issues are the way it works for any type of insurance. If you’re a dangerous driver, you pay higher rates. Have a history of cancer in your family, you pay higher for life insurance. You’re arguing that health insurance should be different, some type of inalienable, universal right. That’s utter nonsense and the country cannot afford it.
You have no right to government-controlled health care anymore than you do you driving a car or owning a home! These are not rights guaranteed in the constitution.
It’s pathetic to even argue in favor of bigger government, it really is.
jd
You crack me up you want to talk about cars..
“You crack me up with this idea that you should be allowed to not have coverage at all and then you turn around and complain that our government has to pay the tab for all the illegal immigrants who don’t have insurance or youth that can’t afford it.”
Who says government has to pay for illegals ? I sure didn’t. So you think illegals who work for cash is going to pay for their insurance. Then you didn’t read Nate’s article. I am going to pay for their insuance.
You think governemt paying for it is free ??? Somebody pays. Just with free insurance, they will get more care costing me more.
“I believe this is what the plan is referring too. You of course feel like you should be able to stroll around with out insurance and when you have a heat stoke be rushed to the hospital and allow the state to pick up the tab”
Are you in a nut house. Nate believes in private insurance or paying for it himself. With government plan he does not have this choice. He takes the risk. Your friends arn’t responsible like he. Nate would pay the bill for his heat stroke. Your friends no.
“From what I have read, there will multiple levels of insurance, however, you will have to have either large somes of money (if you are a millionare) or some kind of basic health insurance”
Have you ever bought insurance are does your Mommy buy it. 3 level insurance is common. Don’t have to be rich necessary for best one. I have always had best one.
“As far as getting into smokers and such… If you are so offended about everyone having to pay more for premiums because of other people than you need to wake up and realize the insurance companies already do this.”
You’re real smart, what do isurance people use to judge risk ?? Gee, do they charge smokers more ?
“Also under this logic, insurance companies should be able to charge more based on family history, food that you eat, and sports activities that you play. I mean, heart disease kills more people than smoking.”
I assume you read and comprehened Nate’s article. What did article say about this. And what do private companies do.
HINT_ Obama wants me to help pay for high risk and added health care for illegals, high risk, and your young friend with no insurance. We want them to have free insurance card so they get a lot more care I can pay for.
jd jd jd Losing every point today
jd jd jd
REPEAT REPEAT rEPEAT
Don’t distract talking about car insurance. It was totally destroled. Focus j.d..
Make you example be about health. Maybe other great social health care in other countries.
There are great social health care somewhere in this world_Where is it. I don’t want to talk about car insurance.
Where is there social health care you want for your family. Is it Canada ? Britain ? France ? Iran ? Cuba ? Where ?
Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said_”garnisheeing the wages of anyone who refused to comply.”
AP sources: House Dems favor insurance requirement
By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent 2 hrs 17 mins ago
WASHINGTON
“Senior House Democrats drafting health care legislation are considering slapping an unspecified financial penalty on anyone who refuses to purchase affordable health insurance, a key committee chairman said Monday.”
“In addition, officials said Democrats are considering a new tax on certain health insurance benefits as one of numerous options to help pay for expanding coverage to the uninsured. No details on the tax were immediately available, and no final decisions were expected until next week at the earliest.”
“These officials said drafters of the legislation will include a government-run insurance option as well as plans offered by private companies. The government option draws near-unanimous opposition from Republicans and provokes concerns among many Democrats, as well, although President Barack Obama has spoken out in favor of it.”
“Under the emerging House Democratic plan, individuals and small businesses would be able to purchase coverage from a “health exchange” and the government would require all plans to contain a minimum benefit, these officials added. No applicant could be rejected for pre-existing conditions, nor could they be charged a higher premium, they said.”
“House Democrats also are considering a wide-ranging change for Medicaid that would provide a uniform benefit across all 50 states and increase payments to health professionals, according to several officials. Medicaid is a state-federal program of health coverage for the poor.”
“At the same time, Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, confirmed the proposed penalty for those who refuse to purchase coverage they can afford, referring to it as “play or pay.”
“There is no use having a mandate without a contribution,” he said.
“Waivers would be available for those who could not cover the cost of insurance.”
“Obama has stepped up his own involvement in the issue in recent days, and there has been a flurry of negotiations involving outside interest groups who have pledged to take steps to achieve savings within the private insurance market.
“Alongside those efforts, financing Obama’s plan to spread coverage more widely carries a price tag estimated at higher than $1 trillion over a decade. House Democrats are considering cutting projected Medicare payments to home health care, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, hospitals and others to cover costs.
“The option for taxing insurance benefits is also under consideration as part of legislation taking shape across the Capitol in the Senate Finance Committee.
“Numerous options are possible, many involving either a tax levied according to the value of an individual’s employer-provided health plan, or on the benefits received by upper-income taxpayers.
“The issue poses multiple potential problems for Obama, who has pledged not to raise taxes on individuals making less than $250,000 and also ran commercials during the presidential campaign criticizing GOP rival Sen. John McCain’s call for a tax on health benefits.
“Equally troublesome politically is the issue of a government insurance option. Critics argue it would render private companies unable to compete, and it has emerged as a key sticking point in the Democratic search for a bipartisan plan in the Senate.
“All the Republicans on the Senate Finance Committee except one wrote Obama recently telling him he was making a mistake if he insisted on a government option. The exception was Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, who has been trying to find a compromise that would make a government plan available as a last resort if health insurance remains unaffordable for many families even after Congress overhauls the system.
“Even before last fall’s general election, health care was a key issue in the battle for the Democratic presidential nomination. Obama proposed requiring parents to buy health insurance for children, with a possible fine if parents refused. But he would not insist that all adults buy insurance.
“Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who was a New York senator at the time as well as a presidential candidate, said a mandate was essential. At one point, she said she was open to garnisheeing the wages of anyone who refused to comply.”
Above link
http://news.yahoo.com/s/a.....h_overhaul
lawyer Hillary, in her husband health plan, broke the law and over-spent her $1000,000 health care budget by over $13,000,000 is Obama’s postal child for his new social health plan.
The thing is, Nate, you do sort of have health insurance right now. If the worst happens, the hospital isn’t just going to let you die. If they would, you might have better incentive to buy yourself some insurance. But they won’t. Instead, they’ll let you become a burden to society, taking out where you haven’t put in.
This is a major flaw in the system, allowing people to do that. There’s no good business model that can be built on giving expensive services to people regardless of their ability to pay. And unfortunately, healthcare is and has to be a viable business sector.
That’s why anyone who wants to be entitled to healthcare during an emergency needs to be putting in for it, or else plan on staying away from the hospital when their hip gets shattered.
What Country has type oe social health you like ??
Instead of band-aid care people who pay no premium will get more care under this plan.. Costing me money
Now, people like Nate pays his bills.
Here is a column by my favorite economist writer comparing the Kennedy-Dodd health care bill with the Democratic House health care bill side by side.It can be found at :
http://www.keithhennessey.....alth-bill/
He writes so anyone can understand the issues.
I’d have to say I disagree with taxing people who have not bought into health insurance. What they could do, is what they do now with people without health insurance, is turn them away or make them pay for the cost themselves rather than the insurance company paying for it.
By turn them away I mean hospitals not admitting people who do not have health insurance and/or can not pay for the cost of being admitted and having medical care. I am sure that not all people who employ other can afford the cost of health insurance for their employees either.
#3 sounds good. I especially like the preventative care. it is cheaper to be healthy and prevent illness and injury than it is to reverse the damage of being unhealthy.
4. Health insurance plans could not charge higher premiums for risky behaviors: “Such rate shall not vary by health status-related factors, … or any other factor not described in paragraph (1).” Smokers, drinkers, drug users, and those in terrible physical shape would all have their premiums subsidized by the healthy.
The above is already done now unfortunately. It is not done in this fashion though. What happens with these types of people is that if they do not have insurance they go to county hospitals or other hospitals that do not require medical insurance. The hospital itself bites the bill and much of it is likely given back to the hospital by government. What ever is not reimbursed leads to that hospital charging more money for services to those who do have medical insurance, which then leads to increases in premiums to though who pay for the insurance.
As it is written in #4, which I’m sure why Nate put it in bold, is that it makes it seems like something new, but it’s not. Health Insurance is expensive already now because of these people who live “Risky Lives” What we can do is what I posted on another article. Tax risky items that are sold and use the money to educate people and prevent the younger generation from starting these risky lifestyles. If they can not afford it, they may do less of it.
The problem now is that it cost MORE to live healthy, and it is very inexpensive to live unhealthy. Not to mention we make it popular to be unhealthy.
6. The bill would expand Medicaid to cover everyone up to 150% of poverty, with the Federal government paying all incremental costs (no State share). This means adding childless adults with income below 150% of the poverty line.
Perhaps we can adjust minimum wage so that those with a minimum wage paying job does not fit into the #6 category. Otherwise don’t complain about #6.
#7 There are many health clinics that charge people for health care based on a sliding scale based on their income. I’d imagine these clinics get kick-backs from the government. So this one is also nothing new. My goal in becoming a Physician is to open such clinics so that I can educate and medically treat poor people who have jobs that do no offer medical insurance and who also can not afford to pay for medical insurance for themselves.
Nate, I repeat, you already pay for people who smoke. Whenever someone smokes their way into COPD and/or Cancer and has no medical insurance, you and I pay for their health care. We do so by paying taxes which the government gives to the hospitals that take care of these patients. When these smokers have medical insurance and their insurance pays ridiculous amounts of money on their patients, eventually our insurance premiums go up because of it, thus, we pay for these smokers already before this bill. What sucks even more is that when these people don’t have insurance, Medical Residents are in charge of their medical care, and Medical Residents are known for running numerous pointless tests on these patients, and keep them in the hospital far longer than what is needed to treat them, again, wasting tax dollars and raising the cost of medical insurance, for you Nate, and myself.
I agree with you Nate that I do not want the government controlling my health care. My guess is that this is the governments idea of how to get people covered to prevent uninsured people from entering our hospitals and wasting countless dollars. It is the wrong way in the sense that it is unconstitutional for government to force us into government health care and taxes us if we chose otherwise. So like you said, that part of the bill is not likely to be passed and even if it does, it will be brought before the Supreme Court.
Nate: I do not know the facts about this, but I work with a Japanese nurse who of course is from Japan. She says they have government health insurance there. She says it is great. She says that workers in health care do not get paid as much. She says Doctors still live very well there, they just do not make as much money as physicians here based on cost of living. She also says nurses get paid poorly as well. She states that other than the wages for health care professionals, that their way of government health insurance works very well for them. Just for your own personal knowledge and interest, take a look into Japan’s government health insurance.
Bones – “The thing is, Nate, you do sort of have health insurance right now. If the worst happens, the hospital isn’t just going to let you die. If they would, you might have better incentive to buy yourself some insurance. But they won’t. Instead, they’ll let you become a burden to society, taking out where you haven’t put in.
This is a major flaw in the system, allowing people to do that. There’s no good business model that can be built on giving expensive services to people regardless of their ability to pay. And unfortunately, healthcare is and has to be a viable business sector.
That’s why anyone who wants to be entitled to healthcare during an emergency needs to be putting in for it, or else plan on staying away from the hospital when their hip gets shattered. ”
You are absolutely right. This happens at my job likely more than 100 times every single day, maybe 200-300 times a day. My hospital does not require a patient to have health insurance. We are a trauma center. We have a helicoptor system that surveys the entire state of florida and even other states, such as when Katrina hit, we flew people from Louisiana to our hospital. (Bayfront Medical Center for those who are curious). We take care of countless accident victims whom have no insurance or any way of paying for it, including Nick Hogans friend (Hulk Hogans son got in an accident while drinking and driving and his friend ended up in OUR ER and in OUR ICU before later being transferred to another hospital because we knew he was not going to get much better and we got sick of flipping the bill, though supposedly Hulk Hogan was helping with the cost, which was false and why we sent him away after a while of sitting in OUR ICU).
So indeed, if you don’t buy into insurance, the rest of us flip the bill one way or another. So perhaps taxing those who do not have insurance IS a good idea after all, that way when we pay for your accident, you in fact have at least paid a small percentage of it.
Bill Hedges UNITED STATES Jun 9th, 2009 at 10:39 am
What Country has type oe social health you like ??
Instead of band-aid care people who pay no premium will get more care under this plan.. Costing me money
Now, people like Nate pays his bills.
Um, I believe you are responding to something AFTER Bones showed how people without insurance are costing you money today, and yet you still made that comment?
Take your own advice, read, and do the research.
Great write up, DD..
bones ?
“That’s why anyone who wants to be entitled to healthcare during an emergency needs to be putting in for it, or else plan on staying away from the hospital when their hip gets shattered.”
Under Obama plan, cost effectiveness may be a wheel chain for shattered hip. Waiting in line for few who are allowed the operation.
It could be deemed your actions led to likelihood of injury and not covered. Putting you in same boat as smokers and obese people.
Storm clould over the Messiahs Utopia !
Article entitled “Dem vs Dems on Health Bill”in Politico at:
http://www.politico.com/n.....23616.html
Article entitled “AMA Opposes Government Sponsored Health Plan” in the New York Times at:
http://www.nytimes.com/20......html?_r=2
THE OFFICIAL COPY OF THE KENNEDY-DODD HEALTH CARE BILL at:
http://www.keithhennessey.....-filed.pdf
deleted by user
AMA Opposes Government Sponsored Health Plan in the New York Times at:
I read that one. It’s great. It shows that some physicians are against Obama’s ideas while many more physicians are likely to be for the overall idea but want to make sure to pick through it with a fine tooth come to smooth out the particulars that would be damaging to physicians and health care as a whole.
This is how things get done. As long as congress will sit and discuss this health care reform with physicians then they can find a healthy medium. And by physicians I mean Doctors who got into health care to assist the US citizens with their health, not people who became doctors with the intentions of striking it rich.
Of course physicians need to be comfortable, but they do not need to be glutenous.
Thank you for the link DD. I’d love to read more about the views of Medical Professionals on this issue of health care reform.
“Of course physicians need to be comfortable, but they do not need to be glutenous.”
Main Entry: glu·ti·nous
Pronunciation: \?glüt-n?s, ?glü-t?-n?s\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin glutinosus, from glutin-, gluten
Date: 15th century
: having the quality of glue : gummy
— glu·ti·nous·ly adverb
?????
” And by physicians I mean Doctors who got into health care to assist the US citizens with their health, not people who became doctors with the intentions of striking it rich.”
I wonder how years a Doctor spends to become one ? I wonder how much money it takes to bcome Doctor ? His overhead including liability insurance ?
My first Doctor was a pharmacist, nuclear, and Internal medicine. He told me he took so many medicare patients. It was his charity work considering his pay for it.
Kendale Sturdivent
“Um, I believe you are responding to something AFTER Bones showed how people without insurance are costing you money today, and yet you still made that comment?”
Wrong conclusion sir.
It cost me money now if people don’t have insurance and don’t pay their bills.
It cost me money under plan being considered. So many will receive free health care. Now they will receive more than band aid help, costing me more money.
Kendale Sturdivent
I suggest you read Bill Clinton’s health plan. I post link recently. I suggest you read DDMao links above. I suggest you read links about Great Brtais health care woes.
Investigate the reality of social heath care.v Plan is breaking England, as our social program Social Security is here.
Bill,
You’re a smart man right? You know that gluttony means to overindulge. Be sensible. By gluttonous I meant greedy, and you know this.
You are right about poor people will get more help under Obama’s plan, but indigent people receive much more than band aid help at my hospital and so I’m sure at many others. Under the new plan people who are hard working will receive medical care they deserve as well. There are hard working people who can not afford private insurance.
I know I am talking to a brick wall though. I will gladly sit back and watch this situation pan out and we can discuss it further after deserving people receive medical insurance.
How fun that will be.
Bill,
You’re a smart man right? You know that gluttony means to overindulge. Be sensible. By gluttonous I meant greedy, and you know this.
You are right about poor people will get more help under Obama’s plan, but indigent people receive much more than band aid help at my hospital and so I’m sure at many others. Under the new plan people who are hard working will receive medical care they deserve as well. There are hard working people who can not afford private insurance.
I know I am talking to a brick wall though. I will gladly sit back and watch this situation pan out and we can discuss it further after deserving people receive medical insurance. How fun that will be.
I am sure, hard working people as yourself who spend hours on computer at work will get care under Obama. The same wonderful care those in England get.
Sorry that I work more efficiently than what you’d like. And regardless of what you may like to believe, I don’t sit at a computer nearly as often as you do. Lucky for me, part of my job is to chart on my patients on a computer with internet access. Plus I have employer benefits. I work in a hospital that cares for it’s employees, free of charge.
Lucky me. I also see a physician that works with the hospital.
Plus I plan on traveling outside of the US doing mission work with the 7 Day Adventist church doing medical and religious mission work, so I wont have health care. I am not crying about it either. I lived 90+ percent of my life without health insurance. I’m sure I can live longer without it. So cry me a river.
Sorry that I work more efficiently than what you’d like. And regardless of what you may like to believe, I don’t sit at a computer nearly as often as you do. Lucky for me, part of my job is to chart on my patients on a computer with internet access. Plus I have employer benefits. I work in a hospital that cares for it’s employees, free of charge. Lucky me. I also see a physician that works with the hospital.
Plus I plan on traveling outside of the US doing mission work with the 7 Day Adventist church doing medical and religious mission work, so I wont have health care. I am not crying about it either. I lived 90+ percent of my life without health insurance. I’m sure I can live longer without it. So cry me a river. I don’t cry over social and political issues, I simply live my life.
Surely your job owes you goof off time. Those greedy employers. You work hard for your check.hehe
I assure you that my boss, her boss, and her boss, and the boss above that have plenty of down town throughout their work days. Sad that not all people have jobs in which their nose is to the grindstone from the time they enter the job until they go home.
Rationalization__All goof off like Kendale
I just asked my charge nurse and other nurses and they laughed and says “What are we supposed to do, wake patients up and ask if they want milk and cookies?” haha
As in many things what you say does not ring true. And what does not ring true, usually isn’t.