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Politico reports:
CAIRO – In remarks being translated live for broadcasts and Webcasts in every major language, President Barack Obama said Thursday that the United States wants “common ground” and “a new beginning” with the Muslim world, where America’s image plummeted with the Bush administration’s response to the 9/11 attacks.
“Much has been made of the fact that an African-American with the name Barack Hussein Obama could be elected President. But my personal story is not so unique,” he said in the Grand Hall of Cairo University. “The dream of opportunity for all people has not come true for everyone in America, but its promise exists for all who come to our shores.”
The 55-minute speech was remarkable and historic not so much for the delivery or even the words, but for the context, the orator, the moment. Obama included blunt talk about the United States, Israel, Iraq, his predecessor and al Qaeda.
“I am aware that some question or justify the events of 9/11,” he said, speaking before a red curtain and six pairs of U.S. and Egyptian flags. “But let us be clear: al Qaeda killed nearly 3,000 people on that day.”
The president, who left the room to applause from an audience carefully chosen to reflect diverse perspectives, invoked the “Holy Koran” twice, and the “Holy Bible” once.
“It’s easier to start wars than to end them” he said. “It’s easier to blame others than to look inward; to see what is different about someone than to find the things we share. But we should choose the right path, not just the easy path. There is one rule that lies at the heart of every religion – that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us. [Applause] This truth transcends nations and peoples.”
Obama got a standing early ovation when he declared: “I consider it part of my responsibility as President of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear.
But some audience members gasped when he followed that with: “That same principle must apply to Muslim perceptions of America. Just as Muslims do not fit a crude stereotype, America is not the crude stereotype of a self-interested empire.”
The speech – delivered in Egypt, where the political opposition can be jailed, beaten or outlawed — is a major test of Obama’s ability to translate his appealing rhetoric into real change at what he acknowledged is “a time of tension between the United States and Muslims around the world.”
But conservative former U.S. Ambassador to United Nations John Bolton said he considered that one of several “flawed premises” upon which the speech was built, noting America’s longstanding alliance with Saudi Arabia as sign that it’s not all tension between the U.S. and Arab allies.
“This is another Obama blame America first moment,” Bolton said.
Bolton also criticized Obama for what he called “a very hard line against Israeli settlements.”
“When you criticize your strongest ally in an environment like that, it is intended to send a message to that ally,” he said.
Liz Cheney, a former State Department official and daughter of former Vice President Dick Cheney, said it was a “well-delivered speech” and that Obama’s personal story “sends a message about America being a land of opportunity.”
Some video clips:
Kind of a snore to me. Lots of fluffy rhetoric and such. He did give some hard truths in the middle of it which was good. I am not one for these “groundbreaking” speeches as most of this has been said before, much by President Bush. Therefore, it isn’t too knew other than the media loving Obama so they make it sound as if it means more than when it was previously said.
Update
Obama has extended an invite for the murderous terrorist organization known as Hamas to join “peace” talks, Fox News reports:
In an apparent policy shift, President Obama on Thursday invited Hamas — a designated terror organization — to “play a role” in the future of the Palestinian people.
During his speech to the Muslim world in Cairo on Thursday, the U.S. president bluntly recognized the group, which has called for the destruction of Israel, in a two-sentence passage that was part of a broader discussion about the terms for peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians.
“Hamas does have support among some Palestinians, but they also have to recognize they have responsibilities. To play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, to unify the Palestinian people, Hamas must put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, recognize Israel’s right to exist,” Obama said.
The president then called on Israel to end settlement construction and for both sides to embrace a two-state solution. He reiterated that the U.S. bond with Israel is “unbreakable.”
Some observers said they were struck by the firm tone Obama took with both sides in addressing the generations-old conflict and particularly with his recognition of Hamas, which may signal to the group that it is seen as an inevitable part of the Palestinian future.
Perhaps next we will sit down with Asama Bin Laden and make some concessions. After that, we’ll invite Hugo Chavez and Kim Jong Il to the White House for movie night.
Hamas kills innocent men, women and children, they do not seek peace, only the destruction of Israel. The only “role” Hamas can play is to end their terrorist policies toward Israel and stop murdering people indiscriminately. Aside from that, they are a terrorist organization as they’ve been designated, I can’t believe we’re capitulating to them.
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Let me get you right, Nate.
you are suggesting that it is a bad thing to ask “Hamas to put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, recognize Israel’s right to exist” and come to the table to “play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, to unify the Palestinian people”.
I don’t understand this idea that by talking to someone means that you are on their side and condone their actions. I mean this website is the perfect example of people with opposing ideas coming together.
Could you image if Jesus, while hanging on the cross turned to the criminal on his right and told him… don’t talk to me.. you are a criminal.
JD
Your comment is perfect example of why liberial stand for extreme. Now you say “I mean this website is the perfect example of people with opposing ideas coming together.”. Bet Nate will mess in his pants when he reads that.
We all saw what Obama did on his last trip. He has already said we are a mualim nation. Yeah, we have some. His Father was Muslin. Yeah, right. Read Obama’s book about his Father’s religion. Dictator is saying Obama is more extreme than he is.
Talking Jesus, really. what He said is on record. Don’t put words in His mouth. Smells of_
blas·phe·my (blsf-m)
n. pl. blas·phe·mies
1.
a. A contemptuous or profane act, utterance, or writing concerning God or a sacred entity.
b. The act of claiming for oneself the attributes and rights of God.
2. An irreverent or impious act, attitude, or utterance in regard to something considered inviolable or sacrosanct.
http://www.thefreediction...../blasphemy
“you are suggesting that it is a bad thing to ask “Hamas to put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, recognize Israel’s right to exist” and come to the table to “play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, to unify the Palestinian people”.”
It is not bad to ask them to end the violence and terrorist murders.
Only if Hamas apologizes for its terrorism and ousts every single one of its members who participated in or supports their terrorist policies, then we can talk.
Until they come clean for their terrorism they should have no seat at the table. Obama is basically saying that despite their murderous actions, they can have a seat at the table.
What about justice for the thousands of innocent Israelis killed at the hands of Hamas? What about justice for our US soldiers killed in Iraq indirectly by Hamas?
“Could you image if Jesus, while hanging on the cross turned to the criminal on his right and told him… don’t talk to me.. you are a criminal.”
For someone who doesn’t hold Jesus or Christianity in high regard, you sure like to use him in arguments, though it never helps advance your view.
Jesus forgave the one man on the cross who defended him and had truly repented of his sins. The other man did not repent nor was he remorseful for his crimes.
When Hamas renounces terrorism and “death to Israel” as their official foreign policy statements, then they can have a seat at the table. Otherwise we are rewarding terrorists and murderers for their barbaric behavior.
Also, your notion that Hamas simply has an “opposing viewpoint” to Israel or the United States is absurd. They murder Israelis and don’t even think they have a right to exist. That is hardly an opposing viewpoint, that’s a policy of war against Israel.
I don’t want to hurt you nor do I deny your right to exist. I am not launching rockets into your backyard to kill any innocent bystanders nor am I advocating that your land be stripped from you. You and I simply have opposing viewpoints and we “come together” because we are both suckers for the annoyance.
Hamas is a terrorist organization bent on destroying Israel, hard to compromise when you don’t even recognize the other side’s right to exist.
In another world, MSSS Hillary wants Cuba to clean up their “human right violations” before considering joining OAS..
Are we still talking to China about “human rights” ?
Obama learn the customs of mid-east.
I watched in amazement as Obama talked to a woman. He keep moving closer to her, she continuously backed off. I feared she would fall off the stage.
Hope aids took note and corrected him.
Hiring guy with so little experience has it draw backs. Biden is exception.
Honest Abe” Al Gore_The Liberal political Leader
“April 27, 2009Two Must See Videos of Charlatan Al Gore”
“It Pays to Go Green! Al Gore’s Net Worth Jumps From $2 Million in 2000 to $100 Million in 2008″
“According to public disclosure information, Gore was worth somewhere between $1 million and $2 million in 2000. So just what has Al Gore gained from his Big Green escapades? According to public disclosure information, Gore was worth somewhere between $1 million and $2 million in 2000. Not quite eight years later, Gore is estimated to be worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 million. ”
“While I ordinarily would applaud such financial gains from such a short period of time, I can’t help but to question just how it happened. When you look out at what Al Gore has done, it’s evident that he figured out on a way to capitalize on the creation of Big Green while becoming the official doomsday prophet that has helped to build Big Green into the monetary powerhouse that it has become.”
“In any other industry this would be considered a severe conflict of interest. In essence, Al Gore has helped to create a fictitious catastrophe, then told everybody what the solutions have to be, and then put himself in a position to capitalize on the hype. It’s not only seriously dishonest, but many people and industries are going to suffer in the wake of this hype while Gore and Big Green bring in millions (and in some cases, billions) of dollars in green money.”
“Big Green has long since evolved past any resemblance of environmentalism and has become nothing more than a multi-billion dollar money-making machine. It’s time to start asking just who (or what) benefits from the pop-culture green movement because it certainly isn’t the environment.”
Thank-you Al Gore for not profiting from GREEN. GREAT LIBERAL
Great video of HONEST AL
http://www.theodoresworld.....arlat.html
The issue of Palestine and Isreal stems all the way back to the 1930’s when the nation was divided by the UN. You call it terrorism they call it fighting for their rights. They make such demands on Isreal for the innocent Palestinian civilians killed.
The key to peace is first a cease fire. that is why asking “Hamas to put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, recognize Israel’s right to exist” is the first step.
The second step is to get both parties to the table. At that point decisions can be made.
Don’t get me wrong. I believe in non-violent movements and both Palestine and Israel have both failed in this area. Which means they both have blood on their hands.
Again, just because someone is at the table doesn’t mean they can dictate the terms.
As for Jesus, He gave the criminal who stood up for him, salvation but he taught and listened to everyone… Sinners, Believers, Jewish, Roman, Black, White, Rich, Poor, Criminals, Law biding citizens.
Israel and Palestinians both have innocent blood on their hands. I see nothing wrong with what Obama said and for that matter I would feel the same way if Bush had said it…. Because it is the right thing to do.
Ignoring someone only makes them fight harder to be heard. Justice for terrorism can not happen in Israel until there is peace between the two and a legitimate criminal court established between the two recognized free nations.
Hey just got back from a week stay at the hospital. I know you all missed me! anyways…
Hamas was democratically elected like it or not. Ignoring them won’t make them go away. Both sides are syaing they don’t reconize the other. Israel hasn’t been a perfect angle either. Its a stupid childish game thats been going in circles for thousands of years. I don’t see how we’re capitulating to them by just reconizing the fact that they do exist and have some political power in the region. Or do you think we should have the cia go in like they did in Iran in 53 and orginize a coup d’état and install our own facist dictator?
“most of this has been said before, much by President Bush.”
Bush never called for isreal to stop expanding setelments that are violating the fourth Geneva convention. Obama is able to find middle ground. He points out problems with extreems on both sides of an issue and goes for the common ground. Which is a lot different than Bush’s “Your either with us or against us” aditude.
“Much has been made of the fact that an African-American with the name Barack Hussein Obama could be elected President. But my personal story is not so unique,” he said in the Grand Hall of Cairo University. “The dream of opportunity for all people has not come true for everyone in America, but its promise exists for all who come to our shores.”
Come on, now, Obama! How can you say there is an “American dream” when you wouldn’t salute the flag and when your wife said that people’s eagerness for change was the only thing that made her proud of America? By no means am I proud of what the CIA has done (take the MK Ultra Project), or how we gave Berlin to the Soviets and China to the Reds, and all that, but Obama’s entire attitude is wrong! If he were not corrupt himself, and didn’t surround himself with a pack of ruthless politicians, he might have more credibility in blaming America for 9-11 and stuff.
JD Jun 5th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
“The issue of Palestine and Isreal stems all the way back to the 1930’s when the nation was divided by the UN. You call it terrorism they call it fighting for their rights. They make such demands on Isreal for the innocent Palestinian civilians killed.”
“Don’t get me wrong. I believe in non-violent movements and both Palestine and Israel have both failed in this area. Which means they both have blood on their hands.”
“Israel and Palestinians both have innocent blood on their hands. I see nothing wrong with what Obama said and for that matter I would feel the same way if Bush had said it…. Because it is the right thing to do.”
I do not think you are a idiot, therefore you are ignoring so many facts.
A rule of war, innocent people die. Can not change that rule. That’s normal war.
Terrorist don’t fight normal war. They shot hiding behind women, children, and in neighborhoods. They fire their rockets next to churches, hospitals, houses, and schools. They fire 1,000 of rockets before Israel attacks. They hide in regular street clothes.
If now you think terrorist are getting revenge for the innocent civilians killed, then you have proved yourself a idiot (”id·i·ot__ a foolish or stupid person”). Terrorist, by their actions caused those death. Israel is one defending the Innocent living and killed citizens. Israel uses smart bombs to limit innocent deaths. Terrorist rockets are not smart. Just relative cheap killing machines exploding wherever it may land at random.
Terrorist need to hide behind women and children. They are scum.
Let the terrorist fire away from towns & away from people. See then if innocent Palestinians deaths doesn’t drop. Fault lies within the terrorist.
Let the terrorist stop attacking and see if Israel attacks first. Israel is the innocent here. Along with the innocent Palestinians people.
If terrorist want revenge, they should kill each other. Ones who are to blame.
……….
“As for Jesus, He gave the criminal who stood up for him, salvation but he taught and listened to everyone… Sinners, Believers, Jewish, Roman, Black, White, Rich, Poor, Criminals, Law biding citizens.”
Actually He didn’t. He kicked some out of church as one example. I’m sure you know the circumstances ?
……….
“Ignoring someone only makes them fight harder to be heard. Justice for terrorism can not happen in Israel until there is peace between the two and a legitimate criminal court established between the two recognized free nations.”
This does not need the two parties to meet. Fighting stops when Terrorist stop logging rockets and living in peace. That ends the fighting.
Rest after that is a piece of cake.
Terrorist, not Israel, should not exist.
Christopher Schwinger
“how we gave Berlin to the Soviets”
This is going a little too far. I am by no means an expect in history, but…
In war normal practice is to keep the Country you conquer. Example__England and Russia.
Allies could have keep the Mid-east, Germany, Italy, Japan, etc.. Instead Allies divided up Mid-East into Countries. And divided up Germany among the conquers. Those Countries beat by Russia was theirs. Italy was lucky because America freed them and we don’t keep. America stayed in Japan and Germany because of their war attitude, then left.
Unfortunately for Germany, Russia was involved in Germany’s defeat.
Russia earned its land in Germany. America did not give.
path ?
“Bush never called for isreal to stop expanding setelments that are violating the fourth Geneva convention”
WRONG WRONG WRONG
“Israel : Expanding Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territories – Letter to President George W. Bush”-
“Human Rights Watch – 27/12/05″
“December 27, 2005″
“Office of the President The White House 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. NW Washington, DC 20500″
“Dear President Bush,”
“I am writing to you with respect to multiple Israeli announcements of its plans to continue expanding settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT). This directly contravenes international law and Israeli commitments under the Road Map.”
“You recently reiterated Israel’s obligations to stop expanding settlements when you said, on October 20, 2005, following your meeting with Palestinian President Abbas : “Israel should not undertake any activity that contravenes its road map obligations, or prejudices the final status negotiations with regard to Gaza, the West Bank, and Jerusalem. This means that Israel must remove unauthorized outposts and stop settlement expansion.” Israel has acted contrary to these obligations, escalating the building of settlements in 2005. According to the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics, in the first half of 2005, there was a 28% increase in settlement housing starts compared to the same period in 2004. Israel now proposes to further expand West Bank settlements in the coming year.”
Did you notice word_reiterated
re·it·er·ate_ to state or do over again or repeatedly sometimes with wearying effect
From letter_”You recently reiterated Israel’s obligations to stop expanding settlements ”
You not only missed him saying it once, but multiple times.
No wonder you have the wrong opinion about Bush. You IMPY WHAT YOU THINK. You make up stuff…
At least my mistake was based on a link. That turned out to be wrong. You just make it up as you go, hoping not to get caught
http://www.plateforme-pal.....rticle=187
JD
“The issue of Palestine and Isreal stems all the way back to the 1930’s when the nation was divided by the UN”
WRONG WRONG WRONG
“The United Nations (UN) is an international organization whose stated aims are to facilitate cooperation in international law, international security, economic development, social progress, human rights, and achieving world peace. The UN was founded in 1945 after World War ”
“On May 14, 1948, on the day in which the British Mandate over a Palestine expired, the Jewish People’s Council gathered at the Tel Aviv Museum, and approved the following proclamation, declaring the establishment of the State of Israel. The new state was recognized that night by the United States and three days later by the USSR.”
“Palestine (nor the Gaza Strip nor the West Bank) is not yet an independent country. The two parts of “Palestine” are entities that, in the eyes of the international community, have yet to develop or, more importantly, have international recognition to be considered a full independent country.”
“November 1988: Palestinian National Council declares Palestinian statehood in compliance with UN resolutions (including recognition of partition resolution 181 recognizing the state of Israel).”
JD, some you information doesn’t seem correct ! You can check my links. I can’t check your links, you gave none.
http://qumsiyeh.org/palestinetimeline/
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA.....Israel.htm
http://geography.about.co.....inenot.htm
JD & path ?
To brighten your day, I will give you a email I got from my brother. Have no idea if true or joke. Either way, I hope it brings you good cheer. If followed by something for our fallen soilders:
Happy Sinko De Mayo
Hellmann’s Mayo
Most people don’t know that back in 1912, Hellmann’s
mayonnaise was manufactured in England.
In fact, the Titanic was carrying 12,000 jars of the condiment
scheduled for delivery on May 5th in Vera Cruz, Mexico,
which was to be the next port of call for the great ship after its
stop in New York.
This would have been the largest single shipment of mayonnaise
ever delivered to Mexico. But as we know, the great ship
did not make it to New York.
The Titanic ship hit an iceberg and sank, and the cargo was
forever lost. The people of Mexico, who were crazy about
mayonnaise and were eagerly awaiting its delivery were
disconsolate at the loss.
Their anguish was so great that they declared a National Day of Mourning,
which they still observe to this day. This holiday occurs each year on
May 5th and is known, of course, as Sinko De Mayo.
And now you know where the name originated !
This is what you did not learn while you were in school …ok
…..
.Red Shirt Fridays
If the red shirt thing is new to you, read below how it went for a man…
Last week, while traveling to Chicago on business, I noticed a Marine sergeant traveling with a folded flag, but did not put two and two together.
After we boarded our flight, I turned to the sergeant, who’d been invited to sit in First Class (across from me), and inquired if he was heading home.
No, he responded. Heading out I asked?
No. I’m escorting a soldier home.
Going to pick him up?
No. He is with me right now.. He was killed in Iraq , I’m taking him home to his family.
The realization of what he had been asked to do hit me like a punch to the gut.
It was an honor for him.
He told me that, although he did not know the soldier, he had delivered the news of his passing to the soldier’s family and felt as if he knew them after many conversations in so few days.
I turned back to him, extended my hand, and said, ‘thank you’. Thank you for doing what you do so my family and I can do what we do.
Upon landing in Chicago the pilot stopped short of the gate and made the following announcement over the intercom.
“Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to note that we have had the honor of having Sergeant Steeley of the United States Marine Corps join us on this flight.
He is escorting a fallen comrade back home to his family. I ask that you please remain in your seats when we open the forward door to allow Sergeant Steeley to deplane and receive his fellow soldier… We will then turn off the seat belt sign.”
Without a sound, all went as requested. I noticed the sergeant saluting the casket as it was brought off the plane, and his action made me realize that I am proud to be an American.
So here’s a public ‘Thank You to our military Men and Women for what you do so we can live the way we do’.
Red Fridays.
Very soon, you will see a great many people wearing Red every Friday. The reason? Americans who support our troops used to be called the “silent majority.”
We are no longer silent, and are voicing our love for God, country and home in record breaking numbers. We are not organized, boisterous or overbearing.
Many Americans, like you, me and all our friends, simply want to recognize that the vast majority of America supports our troops. Our idea of showing solidarity and support for our troops with dignity and respect starts this Friday — and continues each and every Friday until the troops all come home, sending a deafening message that…. Every red-blooded American who supports our men and women a far, will wear something red..
By word of mouth, press, TV — let’s make the United States on every Friday a sea of red much like a homecoming football game in the bleachers. If every one of us who loves this country will share this with acquaintances, coworkers, friends, and family, it will not be long before the USA is covered in RED and it will let our troops know the once “silent” majority is on their side more than ever, certainly more than the media lets on.
The first thing a soldier says when asked “What can we do to make things better for you?” is. “We need your support and your prayers.” Let’s get the word out and lead with class and dignity, by example, and wear something red every Friday.
My wife and others at her office have worn ‘red’ on Fridays for years.
……….
your President Obama
This is your President Obama’s 2nd trip overseas.
In his worldwide speeches,
I might emphasize, ‘not one, but several speeches,
he to the world
apologize to the misbehavior of Americans towards the hate for foreigners
for the last 8 year and I want to fix it.
( and that includes the Republican Party, the Bush administration and YOU )
.
In other countries, in the eye of the anti-Americans, terrorists as well as the
everyday foreigner that does not knows what’s going-on listening to
Obama’s speeches, that
Americans have bad attitudes towards them
NEVER in the history of America have we EVER had a President spill
NEGATIVE remarks about the United States ….WHY ??????
Oppose the President Negative Obama,
US Presidents like Reagan, Bush and Clinton gave positive speeches
Can’t Obama ever say anything ‘nice’ about us ???
By the way, still in Europe, at taxpayers’ expense, another big jet flew
Michelle and the kids to Europe to join him for a European vacation
HALE TO THE CHIEF
.
.
Responding to Bill Hedges:
I guess you haven’t read about how Eisenhower stopped Patton from going to Berlin and that Eisenhower was cozy with some of the most ruthless Soviet leaders. The US has had treason within, make no mistake about it. But it was also treason that got us involved in our 20th century wars.
Eisenhower was Head over all. It was not easy getting along with Russia and Britain. Cozy is conjecture. I head that talk. My bet is he was following orders. Still my bases of my comment stands. Even if Russia had not entered Berlin itself, as major Allie, I would have expected what occurred. Russia’s loses was much greater than ours I believe
Treason is a very serious charge. Without proof should be left in smoking rooms.
So Bill so you agree that israel should stop expanding its settlements?
“in the eyes of the international community, have yet to develop or, more importantly, have international recognition to be considered a full independent country.””
So does that mean that we could do whatever we wanted with the land? Ignoring the people and culture that already live there? That’s just a cop out. JD got it a little wrong but its still close. It was actually the league of Nations that gave the British control in 1922. And it even goes back farther than that. Remember the Crusades? Even before Islam was around people were fighting over the land. Its been long vicious circle of violence.
Chris
“you wouldn’t salute the flag”
Got any proof? Or are you just repeating old campaign lies that have been debunked a million times?
“how we gave … China to the Reds”
How was china ours to give away? Anyways we supported the Chinese Nationalist Party as far as it would go. Kai-shek just never had enough actual Chinese supporting him to overcome Mao.
“blaming America for 9-11 and stuff.”
When has he blamed america for 9/11? It’s a long speech I know but it’s important to the discussion that you actual watch the whole thing yourself instead of just 7 second blurbs taken out of context. Like hanity did the other night.
I agree you lied about Bush
And proved it
I was being sarcastic to JD
It is funny you asking another for proof after your Bush remark was proven a lie.. I guess you will start giving links
Waiting for your link to prove your statement on Hannity
path ?
“JD got it a little wrong but its still close.”
Well, he was wrong on the year and it was not the UN.
………
Let me quote JD from this article__
“Let me get you right, Nate”
I should have been more specific. I was referring specifically to the actual partition of Israel in 1947 which was what set in motion the current division of Israel between the Jews and the Palestinians.
Although, I do agree 100% with you that the situation in the middle east and specifically Israel have been hot topics for many years before.
JD
” should have been more specific. I was referring specifically to the actual partition of Israel in 1947 which was what set in motion the current division of Israel between the Jews and the Palestinians. ”
““The issue of Palestine and Isreal stems all the way back to the 1930’s when the nation was divided by the UN””
lol
links might help__Get it right
Path, have you seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/wa....._zdcFIXj38
Bill (Hedges), not to belabor the point, but “following orders” to give up Berlin and placate Mao’s Communists, among other things (like FDR’s decision to break his promise to protect the Polish from Stalin), is treason if we’re breaking our word or intentionally helping a country (like the Soviet empire) that stands for the opposite of what we stand for. And that, as you agree, is what we’re seeing today with Barack Obama bowing before the Saudi King and shaking hands with Chavez and saying something to the effect that we’re becoming a Muslim nation.
QUOTING PATH:
Chris
“you wouldn’t salute the flag”
Got any proof? Or are you just repeating old campaign lies that have been debunked a million times?
“how we gave … China to the Reds”
How was china ours to give away? Anyways we supported the Chinese Nationalist Party as far as it would go. Kai-shek just never had enough actual Chinese supporting him to overcome Mao.
“blaming America for 9-11 and stuff.”
When has he blamed america for 9/11? It’s a long speech I know but it’s important to the discussion that you actual watch the whole thing yourself instead of just 7 second blurbs taken out of context. Like hanity did the other night.
————-
The US Treasury, White House, and Pentagon broke our official promise to Chiang Kai-shek by not delivering weapons and loans to him. George Marshall persuaded Chiang to cease-fire with Mao, and Mao broke his own part of that promise. Marshall also was the one who gave Stalin horrible concessions at Yalta, especially in making all ex-Soviets (refugees from Stalin) get sent back to the Soviet Union for almost certain liquidation.
Obama didn’t salute the flag: http://www.youtube.com/wa....._zdcFIXj38
I must have been remembering Reverend Wright’s statements blaming America for 9-11: http://www.judicialwatch......ns-america
By the way, Path, I don’t know if I’ve asked you, but how are those controversial statements of Rev. Wright’s okay, in your opinion? They don’t seem anti-American to you?
FYI__You might leave Bush name out of things. It makes me do these things with a ven·geance…
Path
There is an argument that the semite Jews and semite muslims have been getting along well before 1947. (semite muslims are not the european converts which a large bulk of them are.)
Lets also make it clear that Zionist and Jews are not one in the same. Zionism is a political movement which is how Israel was created. 5000 years of fighting had nothing to do with the establishment of Israel and the Zionist movement. Going in there and pretty much taking their land, occupy and controlling them is the current problem.
Christopher Schwinger
Path just says things sometimes. For whatever reason, he likes to argue. Facts doesn’t get in his way. I knew about the flag deal. I figured you knew it too. I enjoyed when he said about the flag deal__
____________________________________________________________
Chris
“you wouldn’t salute the flag”
Got any proof? Or are you just repeating old campaign lies that have been debunked a million times?
____________________________________________________________
I guess video proof settles it. You may have noted how he tried to twist out of his Bush statement. I have never seen him admit being wrong. Must always check his statements especially when he is defending himself.
……….
“not to belabor the point, but “following orders” to give up Berlin and placate Mao’s Communists, among other things (like FDR’s decision to break his promise to protect the Polish from Stalin), is treason if we’re breaking our word or intentionally helping a country (like the Soviet empire) that stands for the opposite of what we stand for”
Douglas MacArthur broke up WW 1 vets after the war who nested next to the White House. The issue was bonuses I believe. It has nothing to do with the issue, I just always wanted to write it. He led a charmed life from Spanish American War to his good fortune in not losing the ships in Korea waters. Him against President Truman as well concerning China.
Getting back to the point.
As stated I am not history buff. My memory is good but this back a lot of years. So correct my mistakes. I am not linking on this.
Poland was taken by Russia along with the other Satellite Countries. By the rule already discussed they belonged to Russia.
I did not discuss China because I have too little knowledge.
Stalin, Churchill, and sick FDR decided how to fight. Agreements were made and concessions. Some you call treason which is your right. I believe you are a very small minority. Although that is not always a bad thing.
The General wanted to go in and take China. In hind sight not a bad idea. But not our way.
We were fighting a two prong world war. Without Germany’s embedded in Russia, those German’s could have defeated us. Or given them time to get Jets flowing into combat. Even the atomic bomb. The big three knew these things and more. I see decisions and compromises not treason.
I do think Japan was carefully manipulated to keep Russia out. We were able to do so because of end of war in the other theater.
That fact alone I feel supports my promise. There was no choice but to compromise. It was not a sell out. Winner of War was in doubt.
A small bit about Patton. He ran out of fuel at least once. He was great General with balls. I liked his slap..
Just guessing here, but supplies and there location may have been a factor. George would run his tanks dry . If I remember right and not just remembering George C Scott movie.
http://mediamatters.org/r.....0906040053
Did Bush actually do anything to stop the settlements? No he just decided to give them another 30 Billion to spend how they wish. Bush was a divider. He believed the phrase the enemy of my enemy is my friend was a sound foreign policy. Like Obama said in the speech, this was a only a speech, what gets done in the coming weeks and months is the truly important part.
Chris is that all you have? He was standing at attention with his hands together. That’s a lot different than saying he refused. Also Wright and Obama are two different people they can hold separate believes and ideas. Even if you take his words out of context.
http://www.youtube.com/wa.....r_embedded
And again how was China ours to give away in the first place? The reason we refused to give them any more money is because most of the it was just going towards family members. His party was incredibly corrupt.
Dreadsen Jun 7th, 2009 at 6:07 am
Path
“There is an argument that the semite Jews and semite muslims have been getting along well before 1947. (semite muslims are not the european converts which a large bulk of them are.)”
……….
“Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830 and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 hundred Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.(7)”
“Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854-859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran’s prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).(8)”
“As distinguished Orientalist G.E. von Grunebaum has written:”
“It would not be difficult to put together the names of a very sizeable number of Jewish subjects or citizens of the Islamic area who have attained to high rank, to power, to great financial influence, to significant and recognized intellectual attainment; and the same could be done for Christians. But it would again not be difficult to compile a lengthy list of persecutions, arbitrary confiscations, attempted forced conversions, or pogroms.(9)”
“The situation of Jews in Arab lands reached a low point in the 19th century. Jews in most of North Africa (including Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Morocco) were forced to live in ghettos. In Morocco, which contained the largest Jewish community in the Islamic Diaspora, Jews were made to walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw when outside the ghetto. Even Muslim children participated in the degradation of Jews, by throwing stones at them or harassing them in other ways. The frequency of anti-Jewish violence increased, and many Jews were executed on charges of apostasy. Ritual murder accusations against the Jews became commonplace in the Ottoman Empire.(10)”
“By the twentieth century, the status of the dhimmi in Muslim lands had not significantly improved. H.E.W. Young, British Vice Consul in Mosul, wrote in 1909:”
“The attitude of the Muslims toward the Christians and the Jews is that of a master towards slaves, whom he treats with a certain lordly tolerance so long as they keep their place. Any sign of pretension to equality is promptly repressed.(11″)
“The danger for Jews became even greater as a showdown approached in the UN over partition in 1947. The Syrian delegate, Faris el-Khouri, warned: “Unless the Palestine problem is settled, we shall have difficulty in protecting and safeguarding the Jews in the Arab world.”(12)”
“More than a thousand Jews were killed in anti-Jewish rioting during the 1940’s in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria and Yemen.(13) This helped trigger the mass exodus of Jews from Arab countries.”
You seemed to really want to pin point your argument__ “(semite muslims are not the European converts which a large bulk of them are.)” I look forward to your link that proves your case. Should be interesting reading. My link discusses the horrors the Jews faced throughout history.
Do some Arabs still deny the HOLOCAUST ?
Semite Jews must have had special marking so not to be confused with European newcomers ?
http://www.jewishvirtuall.....(gen).html
Did Bush actually do anything to stop the settlementsATH
“Did Bush actually do anything to stop the settlements”
You already got caught lying about Bush and Cris called your stupid remark about flag___Take a deep breath and use links.
bones, err Path ?
“Chris is that all you have? He was standing at attention with his hands together. That’s a lot different than saying he refused. ”
Even Hillary, and the other guy. What do you think the audience was doing.
Think guy, think….You simple got caught blowing hot air..
“He was standing at attention “___You are nuts to call him at attention. His hands were in his lap. WORSE___His body
was swaying.
MAYBE IN YOUR FAMILY THAT IS ‘ATENTION’.
It is standing at attention for a 3 year old child.
I guess I better give you a lesson you did not learn in school or life
“How to Stand at Attention:
By the way, standing at attention is military, he is suppose to salute. Wrong again guy.
Step 1 “Stand up straight and tall, keeping your hips level. Suck in your stomach as tight as possible. Keep your chest lifted and arched with your shoulders squared.”
Step 2 “Touch your heels together and have the toes of both feet go out at a 45-degree angle. Keep your body weight resting equally on your heels and balls of your feet.”
Step 3 “Keep your legs together and straight without locking your knees.”
Step 4 “Put the arms straight at your sides along the seams of your pants. Keep your thumbs pointing downward along the seam while curling the fingers loosely toward the palm.”
Step 5 “Look straight ahead with your head up focusing your eyes directly in front of you. Keep your face straight and relaxed. No smiling allowed.”
…..
Saluting the Flag
“All persons present except those in uniform should face the flag and stand at attention with the right hand over the heart. Those present in uniform should render the military salute. When not in uniform, men should remove their headdress (hat) with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Aliens should stand at attention.”
You should spend a lot of time on both links, to come.
Brought tears to my eyes.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2.....ntion.html
http://www.homeofheroes.c.....disp6.html
I remember not so long ago we called on a terrorist organization the “PLO” to do the same thing the president is asking Hamas to do, “Hamas to put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, recognize Israel’s right to exist” and come to the table to “play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, to unify the Palestinian people. The PLO is by most no longer seen as a terrorist organization (I don’t know WHY?). As for Hamas kills innocent men, women and children, that is true but we must remember the Israel has done the same (not with same intent). This is a problem that neither you nor I will solve. As outsides looking in our views will be different then per say living it. I hate Hamas, I hate the Arab world for supporting such actions but I can no longer fully support your strongest ally that is doing the same regardless whether they meant to kill innocent men, women and children. Hamas is an off branch from the PLO and has the support of about 50% of the Palestinian people. So a peace process can not exclude them no matter what you or I believe. But there is one thing I know you will agree too and that there will be no peace in this region of the world in your life time. And us playing hardball and they (the Arabs) doing the same will not accomplish nothing except the continuous suffering of the Palestinian people.
Also I like to state that FOX and the TIMES are in the same boat. Both read between the lines and state their OWN political views even if they support different parties. I believe that both organizations are a shame to the news organization as well as the American people. Let US, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE form our own opinions without our bios opinions or one sided stories, you clowns!!!
David Jorge
“can no longer fully support your strongest ally that is doing the same regardless whether they meant to kill innocent men, women and children”
So let the terrorist drop all the unguided rockets into Israel. Fired next to schools, churches and in neighborhoods.
Just bury you dead Israel.
Responding to Path:
What about Obama deciding not to keep wearing an American flag on his lapel?
You are right that China wasn’t ours to give in the first place. But we broke our promises to the Nationalist Chinese, and the people who started saying it was justified because of Nationalist “corruption” were the communists in our government, like John Stewart Service and Owen Lattimore. They said exactly the opposite about the Red Chinese, saying they were the wave of the future and completely decent.
Taliban cornered in NW Pakistan by angry locals
By MUNIR AHMAD 28 mins ago
ISLAMABAD
“A group of Taliban fighters under siege by hundreds of angry tribesmen tried to sneak to another village in northwest Pakistan, only to find themselves cornered there too, an official said Tuesday.”
“A citizens’ militia that sprang up over the weekend to avenge a deadly suicide bombing at a mosque in Upper Dir district appeared unwilling to stop pursuing the Islamist fighters, underscoring the rising anti-Taliban sentiment in Pakistan.”
“Some 1,500 tribesmen laid siege to several villages known as Taliban strongholds in Upper Dir over the weekend, eventually cornering militants in Shatkas and Ghazi Gay villages. By Tuesday, some of the Taliban tried to get away to Malik Bai village, which the tribesmen also encircled, police official Fazal Rabi said.”
“About 200 Taliban have been surrounded by the militia” in the villages, Rabi said.
“Officials have said the Taliban carried out Friday’s mosque bombing that killed 33 in the town of Haya Gai because they were angry that local tribesmen had resisted their moving into the area, where minor clashes between the two sides occurred for months. Rabi said the tribesmen had sworn on the Quran that they would not let the militants go unpunished.”
“At least 13 insurgents have died in the fighting since Saturday.”
“The citizens’ militia, or lashkar, was using its own weapons and had no police backup,” Rabi said.
“The army’s chief spokesman, Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas, on Monday urged civilians to consider the kind of rule the Taliban was trying to impose — they stand accused of whippings and beheadings in the name of Islamic law in Swat —and join the fight against them.”
“Citizens should ponder upon the way of life they are introducing, if that is acceptable to us,” Abbas told the News1 television network. “If not, they have to raise a voice against them, they have to rise against them.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/a.....s_pakistan
Hrmm….
One thing we’ve learned over time is telling people what to do is not a way to get them to change. If we say “Hamas, do this, do that or else.” Hamas is not likely to be accepting of that statement and change for the better.
I think the way that Obama address the issues he spoke about in this speech were pretty good. The only way to find out if they were good is to watch the reactions of the nations of the world.
I like JD’s example of Jesus on the cross speaking to the criminal next to him. If we are a Christian Nation than of course we shall follow the lead of Jesus himself. Aside from the biblical story of Jesus being a hot head in the temple and kicking over things, the stories of Jesus do infact show that he does not attack his enemies with violence, nor does he say “I’m not going to talk to you because you’re a terrorist organization” such as Nate suggests we should do.
Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t Jesus batter evil people by referring them to scripture? It seems to me the Obama has read the New Testament and follows Jesus in his tactics when addressing evil by referring to Scripture. Not only the Bible but he Qur’an as well.
People of faith can not deny their holy scriptures and if they do then they are not people of faith, yet they are people who use the holy scriptures as a means to get what they want.
“As for Jesus, He gave the criminal who stood up for him, salvation but he taught and listened to everyone… Sinners, Believers, Jewish, Roman, Black, White, Rich, Poor, Criminals, Law biding citizens.” – JD
Again true.
I agree with you Nate that Hamas has to stop committing murder and other sins. Appealing to the enemy is likely a good way to get their attention in a good way. Appearing as an enemy looking to destroy someone is likely to get their attention in a bad way. I think Obama wants to appeal to them in a good way to get their attention and then communicate in a fashion to move them towards positive progress. If they refuse this after Obama has “tried” to appeal to them and work towards positive progress I am sure he will then go to plan B. Add them to the Bad people, get ride of them list.
If long winded rhetoric gets people to listen and move them towards something positive, than I am all for it.
It’s funny how, Nate, you blew off Obama’s speech because his words had been said before, but you put that Arabic guy up so how for his speech which was also full of things we’ve all heard before. I am not trying to discredit you, just prove that small point.
Why do I like Obama’s speech rather than that guy you enjoyed so much. Not because of the words specifically but it’s purpose.
Obama was speaking to the world, your guy was speaking to the Republican party. Obama was attempting to appeal to the world, to bring the world together, to bring about positive progress, to build ties.
Your guy was attempting to express Republican views to a Republican crowd and show just how Republican he is. Who cares? Not saying that many of his points were not very good points.
Oh, and on another story where I expressed that I enjoy rush limbaugh was my way of saying I do not discriminate. I do not care about your political affiliation, your race, or anything else. When you’re right your right, when you’re wrong your wrong.
I give everyone the benefit of the doubt, I respect everyone and their opinions. I am never out to discredit anyone. That is Christian. I believe that Jesus wanted all people to follow the word of God. He was not a politician. He wanted government to be fair to it’s people while upholding the word of God.
” He wanted government to be fair to it’s people while upholding the word of God.”
Where did you get this from the Bible ?
Jesus did not protest against government yet he spoke against those who were hypocrites in the sense they called themselves religious men but lived outside of the word of god is what I mean by that statement Bill.
Kendale Sturdivent
“As for Jesus, He gave the criminal who stood up for him, salvation but he taught and listened to everyone… Sinners, Believers, Jewish, Roman, Black, White, Rich, Poor, Criminals, Law biding citizens.” – JD
“Again true”
1.) HOW DO YOU GET SALVATION ???
2.) ARE YOU FAMILAR WITH STORY WHERE JESUS KICKED PEOPLE OUT OF A CHURCH ??? JESUS DID NOT LISTEN TO EVERYONE.
3.) YOU QUOTE JD YET IGNORE REBUTAL TO HIS STATEMENTS. YOU ARE TRYING TO USE BIBLE IN WAYS NOT MEANT TO BE DONE.
CALLED
Main Entry: her·e·sy
Pronunciation: \?her-?-s?, ?he-r?-\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural her·e·sies
Etymology: Middle English heresie, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin haeresis, from Late Greek hairesis, from Greek, action of taking, choice, sect, from hairein to take
Date: 13th century
1 a: adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma b: denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church c: an opinion or doctrine contrary to church dogma
2 a: dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practice b: an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth or to generally accepted beliefs or standards
http://www.merriam-webste.....ary/heresy
So you are referring to this I believe.
John 2:13-16″The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple he found people selling cattle, sheep, and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. Making a whip of cords, he drove all of them out of the temple, both the sheep and the cattle. He also poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. He told those who were selling the doves, “Take these things out of here! Stop making my Father’s house a marketplace!”
So by this passage you are coming to the conclusion that Jesus did not teach to all?
“2.) ARE YOU FAMILAR WITH STORY WHERE JESUS KICKED PEOPLE OUT OF A CHURCH ??? JESUS DID NOT LISTEN TO EVERYONE.”
When did I talk about who Jesus would listen to?
It appears to me in the bible that Jesus would teach anyone. Especially those who did not follow the law. Jesus repeatedly saw wrong doing, injustice, and those who questioned the law and would teach them, or at least challenge them with the law.
That my friend is not “heresy” Open your bible Bill.
Agin you worry more about boss catching you than to making sense.
He did not teach but knicked out people from church.You quoted jd and agreed. Funny thing is it was in my comment. CAN YOU NOT READ ??
1.) HOW DO YOU GET SALVATION ???
“That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame. For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Romans Chapter 10 versus 9 through 13
Why ask me that question anyway, am I the teacher? Am I Jesus? Open your bible. What you are doing is trying to disprove me of something. Rather than try and disprove me in my belief in the bible why not embrace me and share in its glory. They have a special name for “The Accuser” take your pick; Lucifer, Satan, The Devil, The Fallen One.
“That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame. For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Romans Chapter 10 versus 9 through 13
Why ask me that question anyway, am I the teacher? Am I Jesus? Open your bible. What you are doing is trying to disprove me of something. Rather than try and disprove me in my belief in the bible why not embrace me and share in its glory. They have a special name for “The Accuser” take your pick; Lucifer, Satan, The Devil, The Fallen One.
Again, I am not trying to win anything. Just giving my opinion.
Kendale Sturdivent
“Why ask me that question anyway, am I the teacher? Am I Jesus? Open your bible. What you are doing is trying to disprove me of something. Rather than try and disprove me in my belief in the bible why not embrace me and share in its glory. They have a special name for “The Accuser” take your pick; Lucifer, Satan, The Devil, The Fallen One”
You have come a long ways. From your beginning here wanting mercy death to god like. Is quite a transformation. Praise be your name.
I was not allowed to converse on the Internet at work like you do. I performed my constant duties. I would have felt obligated to pay back my employer for time wasted. I would feel shame not helping those under my care. I would feel my job was not being performed properly. There are always things that can be done.
Would be my Christian duty. Cheating ones employer is not leading others by example.
Actually patients on a medical surgical floor do not need 24 hour hands on attention. Especially between midnight and 7 in the morning. We also have support staff (CNA). I don’t have to fill water pitchers all night. I do all tasks that are my obligations. Actually we have to chart all tasks done and physicians orders and computer generated tasks are monitored as well. I even have a boss that encourages us to study for school during down time. Aint life grand. I’m sorry the job you had didn’t provide moments of down time. Then again that is no reason to hate me. I do my job, trust me, if I didn’t, I’d be fired very quickly. The charge nurse that works with me on the floor does my annual reviews so if I was not doing my job I would be told during my shift.
Allahu Akbar
Rationalization…Christan values ? Work ethics ? You are example of hard worker ?. You deserve raise ?
I am not an example of a hard worker. My motto is work efficiently so you don’t have to work hard. I do the same job all my coworkers do yet I do it quickly. I get raises twice each year. If I did not, I would not cry. I am happy with what I get paid and we get as much overtime as we want. If things go well I will not even be employed 12-18 months from now. I will either be in medical school, or over the in the Philippines with my uncle doing mission work.
I do not value the things that you value. It’s O.K., everyone has their own values, it does not make one of us good and the other bad, though you appear to want to believe that with all your heart everyday on this website.
Those employers under-pay and make obscene profits on the backs of the hard working employee. Like yourself.
I am paid well. Yet my bosses boss makes more than 1 million dollars each year. That is slightly overpaid for a not for profit employer. I am very happy with my pay.
Well you are doing your part to make things better. Is that what you have been preacher. Or are you saying others do wrong, so can I. Are you part of the problem or solution.
Part of the problem…
Rationalization does not work wth me.
I know we both can agree your hospital has too much help. Employees with little to do and time to waste studying and other non-job related activities.
Obama should cut staff and thus reduce medical cost. Causing no loss of care. Just cutting waste.
You have an un·con·scio·na·ble position and you know I know that. And I know you know. So LOL does not compute
When someone is right you will admit. Christian thing to do.