Obama to announce an extra $1,300 per vehicle

The White House confirmed today that the President is seeking to increase fuel efficiency standards under one unified federal standard for vehicle gas mileage. As a result, it is estimated this will cost consumers an extra $1,300 per vehicle due to the standards change.

Yahoo News reports:

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama’s new fuel and emission standards for cars and trucks will save billions of barrels of oil but are expected to cost consumers an extra $1,300 per vehicle by the time the plan is complete in 2016. Obama on Tuesday planned to announce the first-ever national emissions limits for vehicles, as well as require an overall or industry average fuel efficiency standard at 35.5 miles per gallon.

Carol Browner, the White House energy and climate director, publicly confirmed the new initiative in appearances on morning network news shows, calling it a “truly historic” occasion and saying tougher standards are “long overdue.”

The plan also would effectively end a feud between automakers and statehouses over emission standards — with the states coming out on top but the automakers getting the single national standard they’ve been seeking and more time to make the changes.

Obama’s proposed change in rules would for the first time combine pollution reduction from vehicle tailpipes with increased efficiency on the road. It would save 1.8 billion barrels of oil through 2016 and would be the environmental equivalent of taking 177 million cars off the road, said senior administration officials speaking anonymously, ahead of the announcement.

Saving us from foreign oil is a noble goal, however, doing so on the backs of the working class by charging them more for new vehicles isn’t the solution.

Administration officials said consumers were going to pay an extra $700, anyway, for mileage standards that had already been approved. The Obama plan adds another $600 to the price of a vehicle, a senior administration official said, bringing the total cost to $1,300 by 2016.

That official said the cost would be recovered through savings at the pump for consumers and if gas prices follow government projections.

Sure it would be recovered at the pump, if you drove a tremendous amount of mileage every year and kept the vehicle for at least 7 or so years, just like the hybrids.

Here’s a crazy idea but let me propose it anyway. Why don’t we let the consumers decide what kind of vehicle they want to drive? If they want to pay extra for fuel efficiency, that’s fine. If they want to drive a Hummer, that’s fine too. Why must the federal government take away our rights as individuals to drive the marketplace?

But industry officials — many of whom are running companies on emergency taxpayer dollars — said Obama’s plan would help them because they would not face multiple emissions requirements and would have more certainty as they develop their vehicles for the next decade.

That is the only positive thing I see coming from this, however, even that’s a stretch. President Bush had attempted the same type of regulation with negligible results a few years ago.

This is basically government regulation of what you can buy through the use of federal legislation. They are attempting to regulate technology into existence that currently isn’t available.

Furthermore, I believe this is another step in the grand scheme to essentially outlaw large trucks and SUVs by making the standards so tight that it will be impossible to meet them. But I digress, that’s another topic for another time.

  • Bill Hedges

    “Sun is out because good things are happening”

    Is this a direct quote ?

    Thank you GOD

    …..

    Signs of Change

    Car companies have history of fighting new emission changes. Today, “free will” has been silenced in Michigan. Obama’s owership, err ours, gives us change

    Ayers and Rev. Wright protest together.

    Did I not hear it might not be a judge chosen for Supreme Court.

    Senility may be God’s blessing for me.

  • Bill Hedges

    With Governor, Mr Terminated, worship at God’s feet, at press conference, I , with little imagination, foresee Chinese funding for California’s financial highly taxed, Union controlled, and highly spending State.

    No Congress needed. For automobile changes

    See what your money has bought

  • I just finished watching Our Idiot and Chief give a press conference on how he’s going to raise epa standards, this is a scary scary thought. Have you seen the cars that this man wants us to drive? There nothing more then a golf cart. Does it shock anybody that Obama, the biggest pro-baby killer that has ever been elected to the POTUS, that he’s now willing to put the safety of the living out of the womb, at risk? Nate and I are not parents yet, however, I cannot imagine a mother feeling safe enough to actually drive her kids around in these glorified golf carts. Hell, I wouldn’t even feel safe driving these things. This friends will be the end of the SUV and truck.

    I need someone to help me out with this question, these new standards on emissions that Obama is “setting”, the congress and senate have to vote on this correct? I surely hope so, this way America can put a stop to this! The media is speaking as if this is a done deal.

    I say, drill here and drill now. Then we could put all this nonsense to bed. Who wants to pay $1,300 more for a piece of crap golf cart? And why are we paying this, to off set the cost of this global warming sham? Wow in 10 years America is going to wake up and feel really stupid for falling for the biggest scam in American history. But I guess you liberals out there need to validate your life somehow.

  • Bill Hedges

    “senate have to vote on this correct”

    NO

  • Bill Hedges

    Conservative Gal

    Reality has entered the “twilight zone”, now past 100 days

    Path awaits official obamaite web site propaganda to demean our irrational and prejudice concerns.

    Campaign showed how promise anything to get vote, then methodically push Ones agenda disregarding old rules of
    play.

    You can be assured of ability to smoke “grass” and receive pain pills for your family when hurt in your new “State approved” golf cart. All health care is rationed for the good of the “STATE”.

    Drilling for oil is no no. Controlled by Obama for “Hilter style” purpose

    Senate passed credit card bill of right. Goes to House. Should appease us in the pea-on section. And help us forget about The Speaker and CIA.

  • Obama said today at his press conference that we’re going to model the nations cafe standards after California. Let’s review how California has helped the environment since adapting strict standards:

    California imports more foreign fuel then any other state in the United States
    California has the highest car to human ratio in the United States
    California has the highest prices in gas in the continental United States
    California has the more smog then other city in the United States.
    California has the biggest deficit amongst any city in the United States

    So instead of chopping the state off and letting it float away, we’re going to praise California and use them as the superior business model. OK….and yet all the car companies are petrified of this one man and his totalitarian administration b/c there afraid the Socialist in Chief will hijacked there company next.

    If these new cars will cost you less in gas b/c they take a lot less gas, what does that mean for you and I? Gas tax will go through the roof. So by design these piece of junk cars with cost us all a lot more. But it’s OK, remember, we’re saving the environment, going into debt means nothing.

  • D.D.Mao

    Here’s something for our LEFT LEANING FRIENDS!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhhkF3dqXR0

  • Bill Hedges

    The ice caps are thicker than once said. The world has cooled this past decade, but Al refuses to discuss Global Warming because G.W. is a proven fact.

    Is better to burn Middle East oil than American because American oil pollutes ????

    Bush caused this mess.
    …..

    Obama uses our Chinesse money to buy Finicial institutions. Forcing support for Car Companies. Adding our money to get GM to accept today’s announcement.

    Yes, Obama is SMART

    Question: What have we promised CHINA ? They know America is going into the toliet. England warned us.

  • JD

    babs – “There nothing more then a golf cart. Does it shock anybody that Obama, the biggest pro-baby killer that has ever been elected to the POTUS, that he’s now willing to put the safety of the living out of the womb, at risk?”

    lol. can’t stop laughing. glorified golf carts…pro-baby killer… Please… don’t you guys get tired of “the sky is falling” attitude?

    there is nothing wrong with setting EPA standards. Let me run down how this will effect us.

    First the prices will go up because this is a new change. Much like how cell phones were expensive when they first came out.

    Secondly, as time progresses people are going to find new technologies and ways to meet these standards at less cost. Thus lowering the cost that was initially there.

    Finally, after 3-4 years we will have affordable high millage vehicles.

    You see guys, this is what we call looking at the big picture and not being short sighted. If there is a market for huge tanks on the road than the market will find a way to put them there at a reasonable price while meeting the standards.

    Don’t worry CG, you will still be able to go get your hummer and make sure your future kids can live through an 18 wheeler crash and mortar attack while still making it to soccer practice on time.

    This has gotten hilarious. If Obama says the sky is blue, you guys reply that the baby-killing and terrorist loving President of the United States is crazy and by saying the sky is blue is taking away our liberty to call it pink! How dare he.

    Comedians you guys are!

  • JD

    I miss Babs.

  • Path

    The funniest part is that Nixon was the first to propose the creation of the EPA and Ford set the first emission standards.

  • Bill Hedges

    Path May 19th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
    }The funniest part is that Nixon was the first to propose the creation of the EPA and Ford set the first emission standards.”

    That’s funny. And……

  • Bill Hedges

    If I want funny I will read JD responding to babs. Quoting Conservative Gal as babs

  • “You see guys, this is what we call looking at the big picture and not being short sighted.”

    Kind of like how Obama and the Democrats are planning on how to bankrupt America for the long-term instead of just outrageous short-term debt obligations? Yeah, that kind of big picture long term planning will be useful.

    JD, don’t you ever get sick of the federal government dictating to you? Doesn’t it make you feel like a child or is that what’s comforting about it?

    We have the federal government implementing the same policies as all the incompetent Democrat-controlled states like California, New York, Massachusetts and Michigan instead of looking to intelligent, conservative states like Texas which has created more jobs in the last year than all other 49 states combined.

    Do any of you liberals ever stop and wonder why the worst-run, worst-managed states are all heavily Democrat-controlled? Did it ever occur to you we can examine the states and see how socialism, even when implemented by the liberal Republican Schwarzenegger, always fails? This should be a no-brainer but yet liberals will always defend their own incompetence at the state-level while ignoring the successful, job-creating states are all conservative-leaning Republican controlled.

    Liberal policies have failed in California and FAIL whenever they’re implemented on the state level. Why are you liberals so insane that you think Obama will be successful by spreading California’s spending and incompetence across the nation?

    Memo to Obama: Emulate free market success like Texas, not Democrat-controlled socialism like California.

  • Bill Hedges

    Thanks Nate for putting focus on issue.

  • Bill Hedges

    Texas has no State income tax. At geocery store no tax on real food. Orange drink for example is taxed. Orange juice has no State tax.

  • D.D.Mao

    Path……And the point of Nixon and Ford is what?

  • Path

    “And the point of Nixon and Ford is what?”

    That this a bipartisan issue. Even one of the most partisan presidents in history, fought for it.

    The government has a right to control externalities. Nothing new

  • Bill Hedges

    Path

    “The government has a right to control externalities. Nothing new ”

    Yes Congress and President did. No Congress involved today or in future

  • Bill Hedges

    I guess Path wants to ignore this article. Can’t blame him. Nate is hard hitting.

  • Path

    How am I ignoring it? The government is regulating an externality. It’s nothing new

  • Bill Hedges

    Nate May 19th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

  • Path

    Can’t you argue for yourself once Bill?

  • Bill Hedges

    I guess Path wants to ignore this article. Can’t blame him. Nate is hard hitting.

  • Path

    “Saving us from foreign oil is a noble goal, however, doing so on the backs of the working class by charging them more for new vehicles isn’t the solution.”

    So how do you propose paying for it?

    “Why must the federal government take away our rights as individuals to drive the marketplace?”

    So governments are driving the market place? And since governments are made of individuals Aren’t Individuals driving the market place? Why don’t you like democracy? haha Externalities cost everyone. The government has the right to regulate them.

    “They are attempting to regulate technology into existence that currently isn’t available.”

    They’re called incentives. It’s a major piece of economics.

  • Bill Hedges

    Wow..What a piece. I look forard to Nates reply..

  • Path

    Of couse you do. You need other people to tell you how to think

  • Bill Hedges

    I have several comments on this article. I did not mean to hide them from you

  • Bill Hedges

    Path May 19th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
    “Of couse you do. You need other people to tell you how to think”

    How could you not see my coments ? No links involved. All there to be seem. Your above statement shows you the fool.

  • Path

    Just your usual wharrgarbl, sky is falling rhetoric. How exactly will adopting a National standard turn the Nation into California? Cali’s problems do not come from car standards it comes from their constitution. All the car makers where pushing for this even before they got into trouble. Even the foriegn owned ones.

  • Bill Hedges

    FOXNews.com

    Tuesday, May 19, 2009

    “Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Democrats not only oppose the release of detainees into the United States but also oppose the transfer of detainees to U.S. prisons.”

    “We will never allow terrorists to be released in the United States,” he said, adding: “Part of what we don’t want is for them to be put in prisons in the United States. We don’t want them around in the United States.”

    “On top of that, Senate Democrats decided to pull $80 million from the war spending request — money Obama had requested to close the detention facility by Jan. 22, 2010”

    Why to go Democracts and Reid…

  • Bill Hedges
  • JD

    Nate,

    I live in Texas and it is funny that you bring Texas up. Houston, Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio, El Paso are the 5 largest cities in the state and all of them vote Democrat in election and more over in this presidential election.

    Mayor Bill white of Houston is a member of the Democratic Party, Elected in 2003 and re-elected in 2005 and 2007. The only reason why Texas is a Red state is because all of the other counties which are very rural all vote Republican, even though 80% of the industry in Texas is driven through the cities.

    Because Texas has so many rural communities and a heritage of farming and agriculture the voting districts and voting power sways more heavily in favor for the rural communities because they out number the city counties even though the city counties have more people in them than the rural communities combined.

    Ironically, the people who decide the voting districts are the people in power…and guess how they divide it up? Big surprise, It is in favor of their party.

    Your example of Texas being a shining light only comes from recent developments in the past and a fortunate situation currently. Not because of the Republican party… Although they love to take credit.

    One of the biggest reasons Texas has done so well is that our property cost and cost of living is much lower than other parts of the nation. This is not because Republicans made it this way but because Texas cities grow out… not up. The bad news is horrible traffic, no zoning, and our utilities districts are almost always in debt because of poor city planning. But the land is cheap.

    Secondly, when we were hit with the last recession back in the 80’s…Cities like Houston were hit badly because they lacked diversification and since than we have made changes so we are not just an energy state. For example, Dell is and Compaq\HP have headquarters out of Texas. Ironically, this happened not because of the Republican state driven government but because of the Cities of Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston…which all have democratic Mayors

    Again, Texas has a very low cost of living and while other states were hurting from 4-5 dollar per gallon gas prices, Texas was racking in record revenue. Now that the price of the barrel has fallen almost in half, we are getting hit.

    I know at least 4 people who have been layed off from oil and gas companies. However, I am not too worried since the price per barrel is on the way back up again.

    Try not to use Texas as your shining star because although it looks read…her main arteries beat blue.

  • Bill Hedges

    Jd

    ” The only reason why Texas is a Red state is because all of the other counties which are very rural all vote Republican, even though 80% of the industry in Texas is driven through the cities.”

    That’s all it takes. Good enough reason.

    Haven’t proven anything Nate said is wrong. Did you ? Correct me if wrong..

  • Path

    How about we get some of that free market action that Sarah Palin supported in Alaska and we can all get a $3,200 payout per person from the oil companies!

  • Bill Hedges

    Path

    Sarah negotiated a contract with oil companies and gave some money to people.. Feds have contract but choice not to give you cash.

    You didn’t know that. What do you think National reserve oil is ? Their share of oil. Fed can take oil or sell

  • Path

    I was being sarcastic Bill. Republicans always cheer for the free market but then look the other way when it suits them to ignore it. Hint: The free market doesn’t solve all of life’s problems no more than a government can. Even Adam Smith recognized that

  • Bill Hedges

    I thought you made a excellent point. Even in jest.You would rather Sarah give nothing to the people. Obama should not give you $250. Same thing.

  • Bill Hedges

    Why does “Smith obtained a professorship at Glasgow teaching moral philosophy, and during this time wrote and published The Theory of Moral Sentiments”. suppose to impress me

  • Bill Hedges
  • Path

    What $250 are you talking about? That tax credit? Aren’t Republicans for government giving back money? Thats a little different than forcing a private company to payout part of their profits

  • Path

    And your 8:41 comment… What are you getting at?

  • Bill Hedges

    Democrats will be giving you oil royalties

  • Bill Hedges

    Smith does not impress me. His writing is geared toward your view not mine.

  • Bill Hedges

    I get a $250 check around May 20

  • Path

    umm knowing your track record you’re going to have to provide some citiation? Salazar recently did away with some tax breaks they’ve been getting. But it doesn’t get paid back to the people

  • Bill Hedges

    “some citiation”..Hold your breath !

  • Path

    You know since most of the stuff you try to prove turns out to be bs?

    What exactly does not impress you about Adam Smith? You know he was the founder of classical economics and advocated free market ideals and the invisible hand? The same ideals you usual try to push here.

  • Bill Hedges

    Saying bs does not give me any reason to answer you.

  • Path

    Well its true. I’ll just assume its another thing you pulled out of your ass if you can’t prove it.

  • Bill Hedges

    “Smith does not impress me. His writing is geared toward your view not mine.”

    I can not prove he does not impress me ? Or reared toward your view ?

  • Bill Hedges

    No answer means your full of bs

  • JD, you have proved my point on Texas.

    It is a conservative state and has been for years. Taxes are LOW, spending is LOW! I don’t care if the cities are controlled by Democrats, I care about the state politics and state taxes and how it spends it’s money and treats individuals. The cities are encompassed by the conservative state government, that’s not even debatable, it’s just a fact.

    “Your example of Texas being a shining light only comes from recent developments in the past and a fortunate situation currently. Not because of the Republican party… Although they love to take credit.”

    It’s because of conservative small-government, free market principles, not the Republican Party. Even Texas Democrats are more free market than many Washington, DC Republicans.

    JD, you entirely missed the point. Texas believes in limited government and low taxes, the exact opposite of California, New York, New Jersey, Michigan and Massachusetts, all failing states which are completely Democrat controlled. Stop ignoring that fact. Texas is a very red state in terms of being business friendly.

    Also, if it is because of Democrat-controlled cities, then it’s because those cities are employing conservative free-market principles, not Obama’s wealth-killing socialism. Can’t you see that? I mean, honestly, try hard.

    Blue states are going bankrupt because they spend into oblivion, have high taxes, are not business friendly and are terribly managed on the state level by Democrats. That is indisputable and you will ignore it because it’s true.

    Texas is not a Democrat-controlled state, which is why it isn’t failing. Your claim that it is a blue state which votes read is laughable at best.

    “The only reason why Texas is a Red state is because all of the other counties which are very rural all vote Republican, even though 80% of the industry in Texas is driven through the cities.”

    Oh, guess what, cities don’t regulate the lack of a state income tax now do they? Are you ignorant of that? You should thank your lucky stars Texas is a low-tax, business friendly state, not a Democrat-controlled socialist state like California.

    “For example, Dell is and Compaq\HP have headquarters out of Texas. Ironically, this happened not because of the Republican state driven government but because of the Cities of Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston…which all have democratic Mayors”

    With all due respect, I have never read such a poorly constructed argument which is meant to be serious. Mayors do not set state taxes and they do not set state spending. Therefore, of course businesses are located in cities, they happen to be cities in the RED state of Texas which is low tax and business-friendly. I don’t care if the cities have Democrat mayors, that means nothing in the grand scheme of the state and it’s spending/taxes, that should be obvious to most.

    That is an invalid argument, I hope you see that now since mayors do not equate to a state government. You can keep reaching, but you’re far from making a connection.

    Also, we see how a Democrat-controlled state like California is in total shambles (Schwarzenegger is a liberal progressive, not a Republican) while the conservative, Republican-controlled state of Texas is thriving.

    JD, you can spin it any way you want in order to try and convince yourself you don’t live in a truly red state but that doesn’t change the fact that Texas is totally conservative, totally pro-business, totally anti-tax and totally free market driven, despite Democrats holding office in the cities. You are reaping the benefits of a conservative state yet you deny it because you won’t admit that conservative-run states are not going bankrupt like California, New York, Massachusetts, New Jersey and Michigan, all Democrat-dominated states with high taxes and big spending.

    I think that’s about it. Texas is a very red state, don’t lie about it, be proud of how successful it is.


    Path,

    “And since governments are made of individuals Aren’t Individuals driving the market place?”

    Um, are you serious? I can’t believe you are since that’s the most asinine thing I’ve ever read.

    So as long as “individuals” in the government screw us, it’s ok? Go take an economics course and then return to argue with the adults.

    The government is not the same as you and me, who are individual consumers. When the government impugns regulation on you, they are altering the marketplace and distorting what people want. Thus, they are destroying the marketplace, not driving it. They’re trying to create a false marketplace which doesn’t exist because consumers don’t want crappy cars that will fold up in accidents like a cheap camera.

    I had to read your comment twice but I’m still not sure if you were serious. I hope for your sake you weren’t.

  • Bill Hedges

    “Adam Smith’s work have argued that no contradiction exists. In Theory of Moral Sentiments, Smith develops a theory of psychology in which individuals find it in their self-interest to develop sympathy as they seek approval of the “impartial spectator”. The self-interest he speaks of is not a narrow selfishness but something that involves sympathy.”

    This is from link I provided eariler. It sounds like you not me.

    Your childish daring crap should be left in your kindergarten class. You insult and vulgar lanuage extablishes you as a low-life

  • Path

    Nate,
    Obviously that went over your head. My point was that governments do have a say in a free market. A truly free market cannot operate without government interference.

    “they are altering the marketplace and distorting what people want.”

    Externalities are distortions in a market where all costs do not directly affect the user, everyone together pays them wither a user or not. One of the governments jobs is to direct those costs more to the individual user. Externalities distort what people want.

    “they are destroying the marketplace”

    So the car market has been detroyed since the early 1970’s when emission standards where first set?

    Bill

    Since when is asking for a source “childish daring crap”?

    “This is from link I provided eariler. It sounds like you not me.”

    So you don’t think sympathy can be in a persons best interest?

  • Bill Hedges

    I have no sympathy for you. You should have known that when you wanted me to feel sorry for woman you knew who was sick.

    Nobody can tell what another person thinks. Except a fool.
    …..

    “Since when is asking for a source “childish daring crap”?

    Path May 19th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
    “Well its true. I’ll just assume its another thing you pulled out of your ass if you can’t prove it.”

    Can’t you remember what you write ?

  • Path

    “Nobody can tell what another person thinks. Except a fool.”

    It’s called empathy. People throughout history have played off of people’s emotions. Just look at the Catholic Church or Scientology. Or just take some intro Psych classes

    “Can’t you remember what you write ?”

    So I should just take everything you write as the truth? I already know what that lead to.

  • Bill Hedges

    “This is from link I provided eariler.”

    Referrs to link to quote I provided for Smith.

    “So you don’t think sympathy can be in a persons best interest”

    Smith wants me to have sympathy for you. I have no desire to help you. You are not quoting him properly. As Nate said_”Go take an economics course and then return to argue with the adults.”

  • Bill Hedges

    You are not the Catholic Church and I am not Catholic

    I used a link which turns out to be wrong. You will hold that against me to show your superior status..Good call, take what you can

    Grow up. You insulting, name calling child.

  • Bill Hedges

    I have no sympathy or empathy for you. I think you are
    pa·thet·ic. Pull your own pants up and work.

  • Path

    I never asked for you to have sympathy for me and neither did smith. Read the book instead of a wiki page. I’m just presenting the other side of the argument. I don’t care what you think of me personally. I just care about the argument and if you can’t back up your opinion it’s worthless. So either you can prove Democrats will be giving oil royalties or I’ll just ignore it because it is not based in reality.

    ”Go take an economics course and then return to argue with the adults.”

    I’ve already graduated from a state university with a major in business management. In my last econ class I finished 3rd in a class of over 100. I know what I’m talking about. What about you?

  • Bill Hedges

    “in which individuals find it in their self-interest to develop sympathy as they seek approval of the “impartial spectator”.”

  • Bill Hedges

    Send your transcrib to Nate. You don’t mind showing it off ? Right

  • Path

    Smith wasn’t talking about anonymous people that talk without ever actually meeting or knowing the other person. He was talking about social relationships. This was in 1760 internet posts where not around back then.

  • Bill Hedges

    “So either you can prove Democrats will be giving oil royalties”Is that what I said ? Sarah did. That’s what dicussion was about. Ask and I will tell.

    You will show off your degree, right ?

  • Bill Hedges

    You know you want to show it off. I don’t believe you

  • Bill Hedges

    You shut up. Should I call you liar instead of path/bones

  • Path

    yes at 8:50 pm you said democrats would be giving me oil royalties. I want to know when I can expect that check. Some extra spending money would be nice.

    “That’s what dicussion was about”

    No this discussion was about emission standards and fuel efficiency standards you’re the one that keeps changing the topic

  • Bill Hedges

    Oh my, Path has left the building. I will be here tomorrow asking again and again. You want to prove me wrong. If you can. Ha Ha Ha. I’m here every day

  • Path

    Shut up? Thats your response to a internet post? What are you going to do?

  • Bill Hedges

    Don’t have degree

  • Bill Hedges

    Liar

    Get use to it

  • Bill Hedges

    Liae

    Where have I used “Shut up?”

  • Path

    I do I just don’t have a way to prove it. I don’t care if you don’t believe me. It doesn’t affect me at all

  • Path

    1:18am
    Can’t you remember what you write ?

  • Bill Hedges

    Liar

    I saved_”I’ve already graduated from a state university with a major in business management. In my last econ class I finished 3rd in a class of over 100. I know what I’m talking about. What about you?” to my computer. You will see it often

  • Bill Hedges

    Point it out. Or is that your second lie tonight. Ha ha

  • Path

    Go for it dude.

  • Bill Hedges

    Hey Grad haha, “Shut up” is not “You shut up.”

  • Bill Hedges

    _”I’ve already graduated from a state university with a major in business management. In my last econ class I finished 3rd in a class of over 100. I know what I’m talking about. What about you?” to my computer. You will see it often

  • Bill Hedges

    u know I will

  • Path

    Wow really? So you weren’t telling me shut up? Who my I ask you were talking to?

  • Bill Hedges

    one phase has two words and other has three words, Grad

  • Path

    And I never claimed that was the entire quote

  • Bill Hedges

    Path May 20th, 2009 at 1:30 am
    “I do I just don’t have a way to prove it. I don’t care if you don’t believe me. It doesn’t affect me at all”

    Don’t know how Grad. Geee, I know how Grad..Bummer man

  • Bill Hedges

    I want to get to sleep early to trade and be on this site for you, Grad

  • Path

    Ok hopefully you’ll also be able to tell me when I can get my oil check.

  • Bill Hedges

    Grad

    Trying black mail. Your hard up dude.

  • Bill Hedges

    You think after you called me senile old man I wnn’t rub this into you countless times

  • Path

    Why am I supposed to be scared? You talked about my education and I told you what I had. I’ll admit I have no way to prove it. I don’t care. I have no reason to. I’m not looking to get a job from you.

    Why don’t you actually try to debate the topic of the thread.

  • Bill Hedges

    _”I’ve already graduated from a state university with a major in business management. In my last econ class I finished 3rd in a class of over 100. I know what I’m talking about. What about you?”

    Path May 20th, 2009 at 1:30 am
    “I do I just don’t have a way to prove it. I don’t care if you don’t believe me. It doesn’t affect me at all”

  • Path

    Your point?

  • Bill Hedges

    business management. Don’t know how ! I know how. Nate will tell you how. ha ha Point is_ get use to seeing it.

  • Path

    Why because I’m a evil liberal I can’t study how to operate a business? I’ve said it before in other threads. Would it also surprise you that a majority of people making over 250k a year also voted for obama?

  • Bill Hedges

    It’s real easy to send a fax. Rich man like you would be happy to spend a few dollars to make me look stupid;

    I have to tell a business management Grad this ?

  • Bill Hedges

    If you want to admit you lied, I will email Nate and ask him to erase this. I will not mention it. And you will stop using vulgar lanuage, etc

  • Path

    How would you even know it was me? Its not like I would post my actual name on this board.

    Glad to know you know how it feels when someone won’t back up what they say.

    by the way, I’m definitly not rich. School is expensive. And I’m joining the army anyways

  • Bill Hedges

    I am a man of my word. I gave you a chance. Take it or not

  • Path

    Uh no

  • Bill Hedges

    You got it

  • Path

    What am I supposed to be scared of again?

  • “I’ve already graduated from a state university with a major in business management. In my last econ class I finished 3rd in a class of over 100. I know what I’m talking about. What about you?”

    Then your teachers failed if you think the government “drives” the market because it’s comprised of individuals. That might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read and it makes it even worse if you really have a business degree, God help us. The Soviet Union drove the marketplace by destroying it the way Obama is beginning to do.

    I have a degree as well, Path, lets not go down that road.

    Let me recap and once again review your statement:

    “So governments are driving the market place? And since governments are made of individuals Aren’t Individuals driving the market place?”

    If you learned that in economics, please get a refund since you were duped. Once again, individuals and the government are not the same thing.

    Might I recommend the following authoritative books on the subject of economics:

    Basic Economics 3rd Ed: A Common Sense Guide to the Economy

    and then read:

    Applied Economics: Thinking Beyond Stage One

    Both by Thomas Sowell, a man who I can guarantee is more intelligent than all of your economics professors combined with room left over. He will teach you about true economic principles, not the Keynesian lie.

    Then again, if you’re content knowing very little on the subject and making unintelligent statements, ignore the suggestion.

  • Path

    Wow I was playing off you saying you wanted only individuals driving the market. That’s impossible. The government does have a role.

  • Bill Hedges

    Grad

    Well, maybe Obama will come to you in your dreams. I know only in my dreams will you fax your degree.(but you don’t know about faxing) I went to college. There were people like you there. They had problems. If you really going into army you will have problems. I’ve already done all that.

    Take your smith book with you, give it to others to read. Keep your mouth only. Then you will be back here real soon, well, maybe…

    Continue your ranting, oh intelligent one

  • Path

    What I am going to do with a fax? I’m not going to post it on here so you all know who I am.

    You don’t know me. Quit pretending like you do.

  • Bill Hedges

    Bill Hedges May 20th, 2009 at 1:02 am
    Send your transcrib to Nate

    Ask him for his fax number. Personal stuff is not put on site ! All he needs to say is you have degree in business management, “A” in economics and is an established on-campus school.

    Type of college important. Some odd ball ones give that degree!

  • Path

    Again that’s none of his business what I do in my personal life

  • JD

    Nate, you again talk about things you do not fully understand. I forgive you though.

    You are right Texas does not have an income tax but we do have sales tax and property tax to make up for it. That tax is given out to the cities and counties for education, roads, and other such municipalities.. Only a certain percentage goes to the state. You are right though the state leaves a lot to the cities and counties to divy out their money as they see fit.

    Again Cities have alot more power here than you think.

    Secondly, you are wrong about the cities here. The city of Houston discounted the property tax for Hewlett Packard and other corporations that move their business here. They compete with other cities for this. NOT THE STATE!

    I can’t speak for other states but that is what happens here in your wonderful Texas. Again there is no property tax but then again we pay the same in Sales tax and Property tax as you do in income tax states. I have done the math multiple times.

    I will say that I prefer sales tax over income tax since I am only taxed for what I buy compared to tax regardless of what I spend. Ironically, it was Democrats that set sales tax into effect over income tax.

    Finally, take a look at the voting history by county in Texas… Again, it votes Blue in the cities but when you have a state that is 5 times larger than most others than the rural vote maters.

    Finally, I said that I live in a Red State but I am not so much of an idiot to think that it is 100% read and that Republicans are the reason for the season. I live in houston who was turned around by a Democrat Mayor.

    Now are Texas Democrats as liberal as Washington? NO.

    I love watching Republicans take credit for everything that is good and pass the blame for everything that is bad. God knows Republicans are just as bad as Dems on spending.

    Wake up nate!

  • JD, you’re hung up on such minor things but at least you have conceded that Texas is a conservative, low-tax state which taxes consumption rather than production. Did you miss that while California, a flamingly liberal state has the highest taxes in the nation, Texas, a very conservative state, is much lower with the tax burden?

    This is funny:

    “The city of Houston discounted the property tax for Hewlett Packard and other corporations that move their business here. They compete with other cities for this. NOT THE STATE!”

    Discounting taxes to incentive businesses is NOT a liberal idea, it’s totally conservative, capitalist driven.

    You’re missing the point that companies are competing to locate to cities within the conservative-leaning state of Texas.

    Again, companies are leaving California because of the high taxes all over the place. Texas is using conservative principles, like Houston offering tax reductions, to lure businesses, you explained that for us all.

    JD, I am talking about the bare bones of the issue here, not splitting hairs. Texas is a low-tax, business friendly state because it does not employ liberal tax-and-spend principles.

    That’s the bottom line, Texas is where businesses locate because lawmakers, both Democrats and Republicans, are much more conservative on issues like taxes than they are in California or the federal government.

    JD, here’s the thing. You went on a fit over my allegations yet you backed up my assertions by explaining how the cities compete with things like tax breaks for businesses.

    I have yet to read how the state of Texas or individual cities are luring businesses in by employing liberal ideas like raising taxes? Maybe I missed that? So what if Houston has a Democrat mayor, at least he doesn’t act like it by raising taxes to drive out businesses!

    Furthermore, on things like gun rights and a host of other issues, Texas is solidly RED, and you know it!

  • Bill Hedges

    Grad___3rd in class of 100 in economic class…Called a”law” what was a “bill”.I believe you ?? Not

    I believe you as I believe what JD says above without link or math…JD should enjoy cheap tax of California__Move there.

  • JD

    Nate, My point is simple. Democrats can be good with business and such is the case with many texas cities. Texas has conservative values and liberal ones too.

    I think the point that is fustrating me is that you assume that you fail to see that texas is in a bubble not because of its so called “conservative” government but because land and homes are cheap. The big bust that happened stated when the housing market busted…because a 2500 sq ft home is only 150 to 200 thousand compared to millions in California or east coast we were not effected.

    This simple fact has nothing to do with taxes. Our property costs have nothing to do with taxes and everything to do with the seemingly infinite amount of land coupled with our ability to live 20 miles outside of downtown.

    Thus cost of living is lower. Don’t put a political party to it.

  • “Democrats can be good with business and such is the case with many texas cities.”

    When the apply conservative, free-market principles as they seem to be.

    Note: These principles transcend political parties, they’re just common sense which is what Texas has.

  • “Why because I’m a evil liberal I can’t study how to operate a business? I’ve said it before in other threads. Would it also surprise you that a majority of people making over 250k a year also voted for obama?”

    I think you need to stop throwing your major around, Path. I sit here and read what you write in respect to running a business and the economic implications that come from democrats vs. republicans on those businesses, you think you have the authority on this subject. However, I have been waiting for an intelligent argument to back your President’s economic blunders, still waiting. You as a business management major should be concerned that Obama has appointed several people to his administration that have failed grossly, to pay their taxes. Especially his choosing Timothy Geithner to head up the IRS. This doesn’t concern you? Now I know as a business management major, you had to take financial accounting or managerial accounting as a course requirement, which you would have studied ethical tax practices and tax codes. How can you ignore Obama’s nomination of Timothy Geithner as the head of the IRS?

    You say “Would it also surprise you that a majority of people making over 250k a year also voted for obama?” Nate and I live in the second wealthiest county in the country, Loudoun county our neighboring county being the wealthiest county in the country. Which would tell you that we have the majority of those persons making 250,000 a year. Our county split 52% to 48% in favor of Obama for people making $250,000 or more. Now that’s pretty close. Lets examine the facts shall we? As a business major you know why Northern VA is wealthy and has growing industry, right? We’re a suburb of DC and the tax battle line is known as the mighty Potomac. The Taxes are so outrageous in MD and DC that people voted with their feet and started migrating to Northern VA to escape the tax burden. Companies reap the benefits of low corporate taxes and employees benefit from a lower state tax. As VA booms, MD is sinking in debt, and DC is just ridiculously in debt and has now started to implement taxes such as a “lamp post tax”. You will be charged on your use and enjoyment of having a lamp post in front of your house. But that’s the great thing about America, we can choose to live anywhere in this country. Liberals can live in DC and those who enjoy more of their pay check can live in Northern VA. Companies can grow by taking of advantage a lower corporate tax rate and yet they’re close to DC.

    Now those people who voted for Obama making $250,000 across the nation are upset that Obama is going to raise to their taxes. Hypocrites. Take this article for example:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124260067214828295.html#mod=rss_opinion_main

    It discusses how the wealthy are voting with their moving trucks and fleeing high tax areas like New York and California. I’ll quote the cruz of the matter since you probably will not read the story:

    Finally, there is the issue of whether high-income people move away from states that have high income-tax rates. Examining IRS tax return data by state, E.J. McMahon, a fiscal expert at the Manhattan Institute, measured the impact of large income-tax rate increases on the rich ($200,000 income or more) in Connecticut, which raised its tax rate in 2003 to 5% from 4.5%; in New Jersey, which raised its rate in 2004 to 8.97% from 6.35%; and in New York, which raised its tax rate in 2003 to 7.7% from 6.85%. Over the period 2002-2005, in each of these states the “soak the rich” tax hike was followed by a significant reduction in the number of rich people paying taxes in these states relative to the national average. Amazingly, these three states ranked 46th, 49th and 50th among all states in the percentage increase in wealthy tax filers in the years after they tried to soak the rich.

    The statistical data proves that raising taxes on the wealthy is counter-productive. When New York raises taxes on the wealthy, surrounding states benefit as they relocate there. New York is then stuck in a cycle of raising taxes on a shrinking tax base.

    The statistics don’t lie. Cutting taxes generates private wealth and revenue, Obama needs to look that up. As a business major, Path, I would have assumed you would learn about the principles of capitalism and how this country was founded on them. However, it seems that at the university you attended you never asked any questions that challenged liberalism, instead it seems you have bought into failed Keynesian economics.

    If would have learned to question things, red flags should have gone up when you watched Obama take over the banks and the car companies. These moves have become the gateway for further nationalization and regulation of various industries which is bad for capitalism. As a business major in both micro and macro, you should have learned free market capitalism on different levels which would have dealt with both micro and macro. Also as a business major, should you not have learned about the legality of contracts which the government is now destroying. The federal government is guilty of a 5th amendment breach of contract rights with Chrysler. Yet, you have rushed to Obama’s defense without questioning any of these actions from a purely objective, intellectual standpoint, not simply a political one.

    By the way, did I mention that I have my degree as well in business management and economics?

    JD,

    “Don’t worry CG, you will still be able to go get your hummer and make sure your future kids can live through an 18 wheeler crash and mortar attack while still making it to soccer practice on time.”

    It’s funny you mention the Hummer. Nate and I discussed biting the bullet the other night and outright buying an H1 before Obama outlaws them as “assault vehicles.” You better watch out because when I see you in your SMART car I’ll be sure to run your ass over.

    You totally have missed the point here. We are Americans and as Americans we have the freedom to choose any car that suits our needs. However, you seem to be fighting against choice in the matter. You’ve drank the kool-aid pitcher by pitcher and are now an addict.

  • I have always believed that American’s are idiots for being so addicted to giant vehicles that pollute the air. I have also admired places in the US, and far more in countries abroad that use mass transportation rather then everyone believe that they need 6 SUV’s per household.

    In my opinion we in America should be looking towards creating more mass transportation with minimal emission and quality/speedy transportation. That is to say that this form of travel will not take long periods of time, cause lots of waiting, while at the same time causing minimal air pollution.

    I believe people need to stop feeling as though their success is based on how big, how many, or how fancy of a vehicle they drive when that is simply idiotic in my own personal view.

    I myself use mass transportation and car-pooling. Can I afford a big SUV, sure, but why waste the money and aid in destroying the already poor air we’re breathing.

  • Kendale, the beauty of it is, is that you can make the decision which vehicle and or type of transportation suits you best. My husband is 6’4 and would never be able to fit into a SMART car and he shouldn’t have to!

    Public transportation is great if you have it. I grew up in the country were the nearest store was 14 miles away. There was NO such thing as public transportation. Now that we live in a more populated area I do take the metro when I venture into the city. For the most part I hate it. The last two weekends we took the metro into DC to watch a NATS games, both times it was total hell getting back from the game. Plain and simply they were nothing more then glorified cattle cars. I’m 5’1 and absolutely cannot reach the polls that run horizontal, I’m left holding nothing. The time before last I was stepped on over and over as well as I had my face pressed up against some mans shirt that was not my husband. Last weekend I kept getting elbowed in the head by people who could actually hold onto the polls. What a nightmare. Not to mention the motion sickness I feel, at least I was able to hold off on being sick just long enough to step off the train. Sigh….

    So what do you think constitutes, in your mind, driving an SUV? I will tell you, I’m not a mom yet but you will never see me driving around in a van that’s for sure. If a van fits your life style that’s great that your choosing to drive something that fits your needs. My SUV gets better millage then a van and has 4 wheel drive. When I was driving to and from college everyday in upstate NY sometimes in a foot of snow, I was very grateful to have a four wheel drive vehicle.

    It’s great that public transportation works for you, that’s what sets America apart from other countries, we have the FREEDOM to choose! Please don’t tread on my freedom (Obama).