Obama wants judgment by intention, not results

The latest raging debate over the CIA’s mild interrogation techniques, including waterboarding, and whether they were constitutional following 9/11 is a perfect example of the liberal desire to be judged by intentions, not by results. For the record, I would run for office on a platform of waterboarding and think it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread in terms of getting information out of suspected terrorist killers.

Now, onto the story.

President Obama has reversed his decision and now states that some former Bush administration officials could be prosecuted because they allowed waterboarding to occur hundreds of times of people who want to kill you.

However, the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) is not backing down from waterboarding as a useful, productive form of interrogation:

(CNSNews.com) – The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of “enhanced techniques” of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) — including the use of waterboarding — caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.

Before he was waterboarded, when KSM was asked about planned attacks on the United States, he ominously told his CIA interrogators, “Soon, you will know.”

According to the previously classified May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that was released by President Barack Obama last week, the thwarted attack — which KSM called the “Second Wave”– planned “ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles.”

KSM was the mastermind of the first “hijacked-airliner” attacks on the United States, which struck the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Northern Virginia on Sept. 11, 2001.

After KSM was captured by the United States, he was not initially cooperative with CIA interrogators. Nor was another top al Qaeda leader named Zubaydah. KSM, Zubaydah, and a third terrorist named Nashiri were the only three persons ever subjected to waterboarding by the CIA. (Additional terrorist detainees were subjected to other “enhanced techniques” that included slapping, sleep deprivation, dietary limitations, and temporary confinement to small spaces — but not to water-boarding.)

This was because the CIA imposed very tight restrictions on the use of waterboarding. “The ‘waterboard,’ which is the most intense of the CIA interrogation techniques, is subject to additional limits,” explained the May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo. “It may be used on a High Value Detainee only if the CIA has ‘credible intelligence that a terrorist attack is imminent’; ‘substantial and credible indicators that the subject has actionable intelligence that can prevent, disrupt or deny this attack’; and ‘[o]ther interrogation methods have failed to elicit this information within the perceived time limit for preventing the attack.’”

The quotations in this part of the Justice memo were taken from an Aug. 2, 2004 letter that CIA Acting General Counsel John A. Rizzo sent to the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel.

Before they were subjected to “enhanced techniques” of interrogation that included waterboarding, KSM and Zubaydah were not only uncooperative but also appeared contemptuous of the will of the American people to defend themselves.

“In particular, the CIA believes that it would have been unable to obtain critical information from numerous detainees, including KSM and Abu Zubaydah, without these enhanced techniques,” says the Justice Department memo. “Both KSM and Zubaydah had ‘expressed their belief that the general US population was ‘weak,’ lacked resilience, and would be unable to ‘do what was necessary’ to prevent the terrorists from succeeding in their goals.’ Indeed, before the CIA used enhanced techniques in its interrogation of KSM, KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, ‘Soon you will know.’”

After he was subjected to the “waterboard” technique, KSM became cooperative, providing intelligence that led to the capture of key al Qaeda allies and, eventually, the closing down of an East Asian terrorist cell that had been tasked with carrying out the 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles.

Regardless of the overwhelming success of waterboarding and the CIA’s continued defense of the mild tactic used to illicit intelligence, President Obama is taking the emotional approach to this issue:

WASHINGTON — President Obama left the door open Tuesday to creating a bipartisan commission that would investigate the Bush administration’s use of harsh interrogation techniques on terrorism suspects, and did not rule out action by the Justice Department against those who fashioned the legal rationale for those techniques.

The remarks, in response to questions from reporters in the Oval Office, amounted to a shift for the White House. The president had repeatedly said that the nation should look forward rather than focusing on the past, and his chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, said Sunday in a television interview that Mr. Obama believed that “those who devised policy” should not be prosecuted.

But under intense pressure from Democrats on Capitol Hill and human rights organizations to investigate, the president suggested Tuesday that he would not stand in the way of a full inquiry into what he has called “a dark and painful chapter” in the nation’s history.

So while President Obama may not like waterboarding because he’s kind of an emotional wimp, with all due respect, it produced solid results which is why the CIA is defending it. It doesn’t matter now though because I’m certain no interrogator wants to risk prosecution for doing his or her job and keeping America safe.

The bottom line is that despite solid, positive results, Obama wants to be judged on intention of ending waterboarding. Just like the solid, positive results of school vouchers in Washington, DC, another program Obama is ending, it doesn’t matter. Obama wants to judge intentions, not programs and policies which produce positive results.

On the flip side is the decision to close Guantanamo Bay. Again, Obama wants to be judged on the intention of closing Gitmo without having any plan of what to do with the prisoners. Doesn’t matter if Gitmo has worked for years now, what matters is Obama’s touch-feely approach in the desire to be “emotionally” correct on the issue.

So thank you President Obama, you have made the United States less safe by basically threatening CIA officials and interrogators on the issue of waterboarding. If another attack happens, it’s on your hands Mr. President.

  • bones

    I think you’re oversimplifying and mischaracterizing the issue. It’s not about intentionality vs effectiveness, not at all.

    If anything it’s about morality vs effectiveness, and where we draw the line. I think most people agree that evil deeds can be very effective at all sorts of things, but that doesn’t mean we should do them. You just don’t agree with your leadership’s opinion of what constitutes an evil deed.

  • Reasonable people disagree on the concept of “evil”, that’s the issue.

    Evil to me is flying planes into buildings and killing 3,000 innocent people.

    What is not evil is pouring water on someone’s face to make them think they’re drowning so they tell us about their future plans to fly more planes into buildings to kill more innocent people.

    Waterboarding doesn’t harm anybody. Look at all the videos of lefties getting waterboarded, they seem just fine afterward. The procedure was done over a hundred times to people like Kahlid Shaek Mohamed and yet he’s still alive because it’s so harmful, right?

    Waterboarding is not evil nor is it questionable, it’s simply reasonable.

    Obama doesn’t care about the fact that the mild technique of waterboarding gets results, he only cares that it’s politically expedient with the left wing loons to discontinue the practice and threaten lawsuits against the Bush administration.

    It’s a politically-motivated decisions and we the people will be the ones hurt by it.

  • bones

    Our courts have put men to death for waterboarding. I think it’s too late for our government to say it isn’t questionable, we’ve already instituted the most severe form of punishment for doing it.

    I’m of mixed opinion myself. I don’t think I’d have any problem with it if it were conducted on men who were considered innocent until proven guilty. I know the severe crimes these men are accused of, I just happen to be a fan of our justice system.

    But my real point was just this: It’s not a matter of intentionality vs effectiveness. That’s not what’s at issue here. You do your arguments a disservice by refusing to understand what the issue is really about. You’re smart and you make good points, there’s no need to mischaracterize the other side.

  • Bill Hedges

    bones

    “Our courts have put men to death for waterboarding”

    I don’t think so. Court may have for murder

  • bones

    I’m sorry Bill, you’re right. I guess I heard that from unreliable sources – the sentence was 15 years of hard labor, a far cry from death.

    All the same, I don’t see how anyone can say it isn’t questionable. Our courts have considered it a war crime. Our president thinks it’s torture. John McCain agrees. So if it’s not questionable, why are our courts, political leaders, and so much of the general public questioning it?

  • Bill Hedges

    bones

    As you admit, you made mistake. I think link is necessary to see the actual conclusions of the Court. Hilter’s people were given trials in Court for “War Crimes”. I see no trials today..

    Congress and Presidents have agreed and disagreed since their conception. So that give no validity to me.

    Saving America from terrorist overrides and Geneva Conventions does not apply as far as I know.

    I am no expert in prisions. I did not know “hard labor” existed today. Are you referring to earlier times. I would like to read. Could you provide link please.

  • bones

    Washington post has an article that mentions it. You could probably find something with more depth if you google terms like “waterboarding” and “1947” http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/04/AR2006100402005.html

    My point was just that it’s dismissive to call an issue unquestionable when so many bodies of authority have always and continue to question it, including both the men who last ran for president. Neither of them would have made it through the primaries if they were not widely thought to have good judgment and a sharp mind.

  • Bill Hedges

    bones

    ” So if it’s not questionable, why are our courts, political leaders, and so much of the general public questioning it?”

    Questioning is what we do.
    …..

    “waterboarding”__ “so much of the general public questioning it?”

    This is a self serving statement. Is attempt to give validity to your “point of view”. That is what I was taught in College. Unless you can prove “much of the general public questioning it”, then statement should be striken. In court, opposing lawyer would “object”.

  • Bill Hedges

    bones

    Sorry.. Your link confirms my belief. You missed point. Different form of “waterboarding” caused imprionment. Not what our CIA did.

    “Twenty-one years earlier, in 1947, the United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out another form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face, leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk.”

  • bones

    You can ignore that bit if you want, but if Obama’s actions on this front are politically motivated, I doubt he’d be going forward with it if there wasn’t some public support in that direction. I will say though, that in my community people have put signs on their lawns on this issue

  • bones

    Hmm, I’ll admit, I hadn’t noticed the difference. So you think what the Japanese did was a lot worse?

  • bones,

    He’s politically motivated by the left to make this decision.

    Tell me why Rahm Emmanuel and other admin officials went on the weekend shows saying they would not look to prosecute Bush admin officials?

    Then all of sudden Obama makes a 180 and says he will consider it. Why the sudden change?

  • Bill Hedges

    bones

    Prosecutors have not/yet set a court date. Yes. I think what Japs did was worse.

    “My point was just that it’s dismissive to call an issue unquestionable when so many bodies of authority have always and continue to question it, including both the men who last ran for president. Neither of them would have made it through the primaries if they were not widely thought to have good judgment and a sharp mind.”

    All this is immaterial. In court of law. I can look up and find as many or more for it

    Evidents. Evident counts.

  • Bill Hedges

    bones

    “You can ignore that bit if you want, but if Obama’s actions on this front are politically motivated, I doubt he’d be going forward with it if there wasn’t some public support in that direction. I will say though, that in my community people have put signs on their lawns on this issue”

    In my neiborhood all the sign was for McCain. That did not stop Obama from getting elected.

    Now, just because people have put signs on their lawns, in your area, on this issue does not make it universally correct.

  • bones

    Of course I think it’s politically motivated Nate. It all is to some extent. This is America, the whole world watches us like we’re the center. I suspect that insiders would agree, no court intrigue in history could compare to our country’s politics.

    Either that or I’ve got an overactive imagination. likely both.

  • bones

    Bill, I wasn’t trying to say that public opinion was all on one side here. In fact it seems to me that public opinion is very divided – which say to me that they’re questioning the issue. People don’t question the unquestionable

  • Bill Hedges

    bones

    Grand standing phrases would get your grade lowered in college 101 Speech. “. People don’t question the unquestionable”. Without factual foundation the quote holds no water. Lawyer raise “objection”, with Judge saying “sustained” In my imaginary courtroom.

    This coming from 3 Criminal courses expect in College me.

    ” People don’t question the unquestionable”__For your personal benefit, you make out that this quote is questionble by your logic. Therefore there is cause. Sorry. Not logical given the data you provided.

  • bones

    For my personal benefit? Sorry sir, didn’t realize court was in session.

    Here’s the Merriam-Webster definition of unquestionable

    Main Entry:
    un·ques·tion·able
    Pronunciation:
    \-?kwes-ch?-n?-b?l, -?kwesh-\
    Function:
    adjective
    Date:
    1631

    : not questionable : indisputable

    So literally, by definition, if something is being questioned it is not unquestionable. I hope that helps the jury. Seriously though, is this even a point worth arguing over?

  • Bill Hedges

    bones

    Each one of us express our opinion here.

    Trying to stack the deck gets “called. There is no need for my repeating my reasoning.”

  • bones

    Withdrawn, your honor

  • Bill Hedges

    bones

    I feel like a unqualified Bill Clinton or Obama appointed District Court Judge.

    Thanks. You made wise decision.

  • D.D.Mao

    This is one issue I have to disagree with the Republicans and Conservatives. If it(torture) was done to John McCain and the other P.O.W’s to get informationn to protect Vietnam and is wrong then it’s wrong for us to do it using the national security excuse.Just because Vietnam is a Third World country doesn’t mean they are less valuable in their eyes than we feel America is in our eyes.And the difference in weapons arguement is moot due to the fact that America had a much greater military might than Vietnam did.

    Morals and double standards are the measure.

  • Bill Hedges

    DDMao

    John McCain was in uniform. Terrorist are not in uniform. To my knowledge, G. Convention does not apply to spies.

    Is my understanding Vietnam style of waterboarding was worse than ours. We did to like 4 people. Under eye of Doctor.

  • D.D.Mao

    Bill……..Torture is torture to aquire information no matter how you spin it……even by using the word MILD! Does it make it O.K. to torture someone just because they aren’t in uniform? They aren’t in uniform because they aren’t part of any organized military NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE SPIES! And when they were captured they were captured as P.O.W.’s NOT SPIES which would protect them under the Geneva Convention and NOT THE CONSTITUTION as the liberal left believes.

    John Kerry in 1970 testified before Congress that American G.I’s were performing atrocious acts on a daily basis and America was stunned.America was also stunned by Jane Fonda visiting the Hanoi Hilton and other P.O.W. camps and she is looked on as a traitor by many even in America today for her actions. By turning a blind eye to our torturing prisoners we are saying Jane Fonda was right all along.

    If you condone torture by us then don’t show synthetic indignation when our men and WOMEN get tortured by our enermies.I am sure they feel their national security is just as important as we do ours.

  • Not everyone believes waterboarding is torture, that is disputed highly. I don’t believe it is since there is no long lasting pain or effects from it. The same goes for all the weak techniques like loud music, sleep deprivation etc…

    This is torture, just ask Daniel Pearl’s family:

    We don’t decapitate people nor do we threaten them with any violence. We don’t cut off fingers, we don’t pull out finger nails, we don’t beat prisoners. In fact, we give them Korans and treat them with way more amenities than they deserve.

    So I’m sorry, but pouring some water on the 9/11 planners is the least of my worries nor is it anything close to torture.

  • bones

    By the same token, why does anyone believe that pouring some water over prisoners is going to get them information? Doesn’t sound like an idea that anyone should take seriously as an interrogation method. Not unless it turns out that pouring some water on prisoners is EXTREMELY unpleasant.

    But of course if it’s not extremely unpleasant than it’s not effective, is it? That’s sort of the fundamental idea behind torture

  • Bill Hedges

    DDMao

    I personally do not give terrorist rights under our Constitution. I agree completly with comment from Nate. Military law is good enough.

    Afterwards, I would shot them dead, if warranted.

    …..
    ” And when they were captured they were captured as P.O.W.’s NOT SPIES which would protect them under the Geneva Convention and NOT THE CONSTITUTION as the liberal left believes”

    From my readings you are wrong, DDMao. Both sides, as I understand, must sign G. Convention, to be valid…

    You can not expect one side to play nice and otherside do as they please.

    I have noticed no United Nations outcry for breaking G Convention rules, let alone taking United States to Court over it.
    …..

    “If you condone torture by us then don’t show synthetic indignation when our men and WOMEN get tortured by our enermies.I am sure they feel their national security is just as important as we do ours.”

    The level of “our torture” is nothing, in comparision to the terrorist as Nate shows. Terrorist are not soliders. Treatment is different than that of a soilder in uniform.

    Dick Chaney said many liVes were saveD in planned attack in California. If waterboarding saved thosed lives, I am pleased

  • Bill Hedges

    There are different forms of “waterboarding”. bones posted a link were some Viet Nam soilders were conviced for it. Ours is not up to that level.

    DDMao, you said “Torture is torture “. I disagree. There are levels. Some of our soilders had there heads cut off and dragged through the streets in the Middle East. Terrorist have placed explosives on women and children. Hidden by not wearing uniforms. I dare to call them spies. I believe there are different levels.

  • D.D.Mao

    Bill………..Again you are blurring “terrorist” and prisoners taken during battle and interrogation and torture.If military law is what you feel should govern the treatment of “prisoners taken during battle” I seriously doubt it includes torture of any kind while interrogation is acceptable.Persons caught while performing or planning a terrorist act should be put to death after a trial and as you stated both patries need to be signers of the Geneva convention.However just because a party didn’t sign the Geneva convention (guerrilla fighters rarely do) there is no rational reason to justify a lack of civility and integrity by committing acts of debauchery.As bones said achieving information under coercion must be unpleasent enough to be effective and defining deviancy down in order to achieve your end is WRONG.

  • Bill Hedges

    DDMao

    They are not soldiers. Soldiers wear uniform. So you use “prisoners, I use terrorist. Yes military law for spy. Again, G. Convention does not apply.

    “no rational reason to justify a lack of civility and integrity by committing acts of debauchery”

    I disagree. Congressmen were notified as point out in article by Nate. With none raising opposition to President or press shortly after being informed. G. convention stops debauchery, but as pointed out, soes not exist here. Saving American city in California justifies.

    Only after a much later time did they complain.

    “.As bones said achieving information under coercion must be unpleasant enough to be effective and defining deviancy down in order to achieve your end is WRONG.”

    I believe it does. As certain members of Congress agreed. As stated earlier in this comment.

  • D.D.Mao

    You give an over inflated sense of significance to our self-seving,morally uncouth, elected officials from both sides of the aisle.

    If there was ever another Constitutional Convention (as the liberal left wants)they would subordinate the Constitution to their own ideological prepossessions.God help what it would look like from these intellectually bankrupt individuals who wouldn’t know the difference between hotcakes and horseshit.

  • Bill Hedges

    DDMao

    “You give an over inflated sense of significance to our self-seving,morally uncouth, elected officials from both sides of the aisle.”

    Not true at all. I was pointed out what hyprocrite they were to accept it, then reject it, at a later time. As Nate pinted out, I believe.

    I don’t give a rat’s behind what politicans think about waterboardering. Right thing to do in my book.
    By becoming terrorist, they lose all human rights. A pedophile is more rightest.

  • D.D.Mao

    Bill……..Obviously I misunderstood you when you stated twice in your 1:26 P.M. post that “Congressmen were notified……with none raising opposition” and “As certain members of Congress agreed…..”that you thought Congress gave the O.K.

    Be carefull how you judge.In the eyes of our enermies American imperial capitalist are judged as having no rights as was shown by the North Vietnamese.It’ a two way street.

  • Bill Hedges

    DDMao

    Our debauchery in Middle east of waterboarding caused ??? damage to 4 people and saved California’s bombing.. Their debauchery caused uniformed soilders to be de-headed, farm market explosions, women and children as human bombs.etc.

    You are right.The world should see us as the “BUTCHERS AND DOUBLE STARDARD debauchery” THAT WE REPRESENT.

    Our behavior shaLl go down in history as justfication for harming uniformed soilders.

    Yes, our waterboarding Justifies HUMAN BOMBS.

    No matter what, America must travel the high road__ To begin this process, give America back to the Indians.

    Some how we caused Hitler.. Should have accepted mass killings of American soilders in Japan, instead of going nuclear. Had it not been for America, no nuclear would exist.

    All is America’s fault. Europe is so right…America caused the original SIN. And killed Jesus. Caused Cain and Able, etc.

    America started this mess with non-harmful waterboarding in Middle East. I shall bow my head in shame..

    I know I did not answer your question. I am too ashamed living in Country that can not live up to Iran or Iraq’s high standards. I demand that we do…..

  • Bill Hedges

    DDMao

    To get America on the high road. Who should America model themselves after. What Country should be our “role model”
    ENGLAND ? No
    Russia ? No.
    Italy ? No
    Germany? No
    WHO ???

    I have noticed some wish to blame America for same things other Countries do. Although the extend is much less harmful.

    Our actions may cause need for bandage. While other side causes head loss___Our action lead to be-heading of course. Though their behavior is common place.

    Or they go future back in history to show America’s inhumane methods. The game cannot include behavior of other Countries, because we are the GOLD STANDARD… The BEACON OF LIGHT TO THE WORLD. How this gives powers to condemn America.

    To those that want America to be the perfect Country. Come down out of the clouds. The only perfect person was killed because of his perfection. We live in the real Wold…

    Let the countries judge America…

    “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone”
    Bible

  • Bill Hedges

    DDMao

    Now that is out of my system, I will attempt to answer your question.

    “Bill……..Obviously I misunderstood you when you stated twice in your 1:26 P.M. post that “Congressmen were notified……with none raising opposition” and “As certain members of Congress agreed…..”that you thought Congress gave the O.K.”

    I care less about getting Congress O.K. in this discussion.

    My point was __”Only after a much later time did they complain”. Referring to Congress and waterboarding.

    I was agreeing with Nate from other article that some Congresmen were playing dumb about being told “early on” about waterboarding.

    So here is my related comment from 126 pm___

    “I disagree. Congressmen were notified as point out in article by Nate. With none raising opposition to President or press shortly after being informed. G. convention stops debauchery, but as pointed out, soes not exist here. Saving American city in California justifies.”

    “Only after a much later time did they complain”
    …..

    My writing abilities are not the best, so I take full blame for my lack of clarity. I enjoyed pot in College instead of books and classrooms

  • D.D.Mao

    Bill…………America doesn’t need to MODEL THEMSELVES after any country BUT lets NOT LOWER OURSELVES TO THE LEVEL OF THE SCUM EITHER.

    Oh! and I did not use the term “BUTCHERS” in any of my post so DON’T PUT IT IN QUOTES AND ATTRIBUTE IT TO ME!

  • Bill Hedges

    DDMao

    “Bill…………America doesn’t need to MODEL THEMSELVES after any country BUT lets NOT LOWER OURSELVES TO THE LEVEL OF THE SCUM EITHER.”

    What I said__”I have noticed some wish to blame America for same things other Countries do. Although the extend is much less harmful.”

    We are “NOT LOWER OURSELVES TO THE LEVEL OF THE SCUM EITHER.”

    “Our actions may cause need for bandage. While other side causes head loss___Our action lead to be-heading of course. Though their behavior is common place”
    …..

    “You are right.The world should see us as the “BUTCHERS AND DOUBLE STARDARD debauchery” THAT WE REPRESENT”

    I use quotes for enphases. I did not imply that as your quote. Last 3 words make that clear. By my interpretation.
    If I made a error in English useage of rules, I am truely sorry.

  • Bill Hedges

    DDMao

    For world to judge us at highest level. Or for some here to judge us at higher levels. Is wrong.

    We live in a practical world. Your use of “LOWER OURSELVES TO THE LEVEL OF THE SCUM EITHER.” Is not fair assessment of non-harmful water-boarding.

  • bones

    I would bet all my money that the guy who got waterboarded 138 times has severe PTSD from the experience. Now that guy is pure scum, he admitted to planning 9/11. But I say execution is punishment enough. We don’t need to measure our morality by the morality of the people we fight in order to win the battle.

    I’ve always agreed with the golden rule: do onto others as you would have others do unto you. Or Gandhi’s ‘be the change you want in the world’. It’s not do onto others as others have done to you, we need to lead by example. Our enemies gather much less sympathy when we do

  • Bill Hedges

    DDMao

    As you said__”lets NOT LOWER OURSELVES TO THE LEVEL OF THE SCUM EITHER.”

    We do not
    1. Bomb food markets on purpose
    2. Tie explosives to woman and children and explode in crowed areas.
    3. Shot at troups hidden undeneath the legs of women.
    4 Behead
    5 Etc.

    Were we to do so, I would agree with you. Our use of water, as far as I know, did not require a bandage.

    Saved American lives. Under medical supervision.. Permitted and approved from higher command. Limited to individual for specific reasons

  • D.D.Mao

    Bill …………..We are starting to repeat ourselves which serves no purpose.Obviously we disagree.Good night!

    Bones………….Did you ever imagine we would agree on anything?

  • Bill Hedges

    DDMao

    It is clear we did not lower ourselves to “Scum”

  • bones

    Ha, no, no I did not. But I like to think that whereever you stand in waterboarding, morality is a bi-partisan issue.

  • Bill Hedges

    bones

    Ha. ha . no

  • Bill Hedges

    bones

    If you wish to challenge my statements with meaningful statements we can debate. Otherwise, I have no intentions in wasting my time..Ha, belongs on comedy sites

  • bones

    Sure it is Bill. At the heart of it, the issue is a balance between our love for and desire to protect America and who we want to be as a nation. Waterboarding is just the line that’s been drawn in the sand

  • bones

    Also bill, my ‘ha’ was directed at DDs comment. I respect your point of view

  • Bill Hedges

    bone

    You may discuss with the other people on site now

  • JD

    Sorry, guys I have been gone for the past couple of weeks but on my travels i saw a girl that was wearing a wrist band that said…

    WWJD

    Now I thought those had gone out of fasion too but It got me thinking as I read this article.

    What would Jesus do? Do any of you on here believe that Jesus Christ would support water boarding?

    I guess this is relevant if you are a christian or not but just a thought. It would be curious to hear everyone’s answers.