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Many people have been pouring over the President-elect Obama transition team website, located at CHANGE.gov, and have been finding some inconsistencies in the hastily assembled programs. The first and foremost seems to be the “America Serves” plan, I’ll explain below.
Here’s the page on change.gov which describes the plan:
America Serves
“When you choose to serve — whether it’s your nation, your community or simply your neighborhood — you are connected to that fundamental American ideal that we want life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness not just for ourselves, but for all Americans. That’s why it’s called the American dream.”
The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.
I commend any president calling on Americans to give time to community service. I wish President Bush had done more of that following 9/11. However, President-elect Obama seems to take it a step further. Leaders should inspire people to volunteer.
However, the first quote discusses people who “choose” to serve the nation. The paragraph which describes the plan then discusses “requirements” of serving in community service.
How does a “choice” to serve square with forcing high school students to serve? That’s not volunteerism, that’s indentured servitude when the government not simply compels, but requires you to serve.
Am I wrong here? Sound off below. Forcing people to serve is hardly inspirational.
Update
The page content has been changed to water down the original “requirement” of community service for everyone and now discusses it in the context of a $4,000 tuition credit and the desire for high school students to participate, not a requirement.
The next text reads as follows:
The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.
Either the page was put together sloppily, leaving out the fact that the requirement or community service was tied to the $4,000 tuition credit, or the Obama campaign began taking some questions on it and decided to change it.
I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt to say they probably screwed it up while putting together the page, though you would never have known that since the initial text simply gave a requirement of service with nothing about a $4,000 tuition credit.
Also notice the text about high school students has been changed from “required” to “setting the goal” that high school students will participate in 50 hours of community service.
Clearly they discovered that not many people take kindly to the federal government forcing people to serve based on whatever the federal government defines as serving.
In fact, I went to the cached version of the page from Google timestamped Nov 7, 2008 19:05:13 GMT, it shows the following in this screenshot:
Note that it definitively “requires” service from high school and college with nothing about any $4,000 tuition credits.
The current page has been CHANGED already.
So no, I’m not crazy, the page has been changed to get rid of the requirement. Luckily I was able to document it.
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This Obama agenda is like a Taoist paradox: “You should enjoy helping others”. How can you enjoy helping others when you are REQUIRED to? It’s not out of a free desire then! Obama doesn’t just want to end poverty in America (something that won’t happen, by the way). He wants to set up youth brigades who will silence people who do not want to worship him.
I hate the worship that Obama is receiving from millions of Americans, who call him the “chosen one”, “savior”, “Messiah”, and “President of the world”. The Bible talks about a world leader, an Antichrist, who will destroy freedom and be worshiped. I pray many times daily that such will not come to pass in the near future.
I think you’re getting a little carried away. The language in that excerpt may be poorly written, but there is no way that every American would be forced to serve. This is a non story.
Thanks for posting this, Nate. I didn’t even know The One had a website like this. Is it required reading from the president elect, as our service is apparently required? Usually when someone is sentenced to community service it’s because they’ve broken the law, isn’t it?
Interesting that his mandate is geared largely toward the very sector that put him in office. I’m betting they won’t feel too grateful for the privilege.
Wow, check out the civil rights page. He makes me wanna march right now for equal pay.
http://change.gov/agenda/civilrights/
“I think you’re getting a little carried away. The language in that excerpt may be poorly written, but there is no way that every American would be forced to serve. This is a non story.”
Until President-elect Obama explains this:
“Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year.”
It’s a story. I imagine it will be revised, however, right now it says “require” and uses very strong language indicating the community service is required to graduate high school or college.
Awaiting explanation, will update if it comes.
Actually, come to think of it, I’m not opposed to service as a requirement in high school. Why should serving fellow Americans be of less value than physical education or english class?
My question is service to what, the 2012 campaign? It’s so general it could be anything, including basketball.
Stewf,
It’s called indentured servitude if you require it across the board to graduate high school or college. We ended slavery in this country a long time ago, why should the government be allowed to enslave everyone? Plus, what if I work at my local church, does that count or does it have to be non-religious? How does the government get the right to determine the form in which I serve my fellow citizens? What if I help my neighbor clean his garage, does that count? What if I teach a Sunday school class, does that count or is that too religious as well?
It’s nonsense! The government should never be involved in forcing people to serve, especially not from a federal level.
My father, a former high school social studies teacher, used to require 20 hours of community service for students taking his Participation in Government class. It was a requirement up front and the students who took the class wanted to learn more about civil service. It was successful in teaching students, who actually wanted to serve, more about selflessness.
You have to be joking if you think a mandate from the federal government on high school kids is good across the board. You see the drop-out rate now? Look for that to skyrocket when you force kids who are barely graduating high school as it is have to do 50 hours of community service as well.
The though of the federal government imposing such a mandate is insane.
True leaders can inspire people to serve, they don’t have to force them.
Inspire, don’t require.
There is not a contradiction here but I think this is a case of people hearing what they want to here.
The word “require” refers to the fact, that, to be a part of these programs (I.E. – College tuition credit, or middle school and high school service learning programs) than these students will be “required” to give “X” amount of time to the community with choices from multiple service programs both Nationally and locally.
Explanation is found on the http://www.change.gov site is the following…
“Require 100 Hours of Service in College: Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year. ”
If you do the 100 hours than you get a tax credit… he said that in the campaign. you do not have to do the service but if you don’t than no 4,000 dollars.
Also,
“Expand Service-Learning in Our Nation’s Schools: Obama and Biden will set a goal that all middle and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year. They will develop national guidelines for service- learning and will give schools better tools both to develop programs and to document student experience.”
In other words set up “develop” programs in schools for kids in middle school and high school so they have a program to get involved in that helps them do community service and get job experience.
For example the “Green Job Corps: Obama and Biden will create an energy-focused youth jobs program to provide youth with service opportunities weatherizing buildings and getting practical experience in fast-growing career fields”
They are not forcing them to get involved but stating that the schools don’t currently have adequate programs for service learning and adequate guidelines for doing so. This is what Obama is looking to fix and in fixing it, he is looking to set a goal of 50 hours of service for these programs.
Much like Cub Scouts has goals for you to meet and patches to earn if you choose to join the cub scouts.
Link for more information on http://www.change.gov under the agenda section…
http://change.gov/agenda/service/
Christopher – “I pray many times daily that such will not come to pass in the near future.”
Interesting…are you suggesting Obama is the anti-Christ?
To everyone:
I can’t help but feel like some of you are looking to split hairs on every word that Obama says. We all need to take a breath and look at the whole picture and stop taking words like “require” as a negative meaning of forcing instead of its real meaning of setting a standard.
Like requiring English 101 before you can take English 102 or Requiring A Degree before a Doctorate. This is called setting a standard. I can choose not to take English 101 or get a degree but then I am not eligible for English 102 or a doctorate.
In this case you don’t have to do 100 hours community service but if you don’t than you don’t get a 4,000 dollar college credit.
Nate said-”The though of the federal government imposing such a mandate is insane.”
Yes, I agre. Not American. Same holds true for what Obama said to Joe the Plumber. Including the harassment he went through. And what the Constitutional professoer Obama who felt Supreme Couurt Judges should have given compensation along with Cibil Rights reform
Yes Nate what you concluded is insane, now add all history we know of him during the campaign. Let alone his past Stewf quicky cobformed to Obama’s will….I will buy my brown shirt
I agree…you’re reading too much into it. It’s poorly worded on that one page, but after looking at the website it’s stated differently elsewhere.
You don’t have to do it if you don’t want the $4,000 tax credit for college. If you want the money you have to do the service. I have no problem with it.
I think there is a mis-understanding here. I don’t think he meant require like as to make people do things.
JD Wrote…
Much like Cub Scouts has goals for you to meet and patches to earn if you choose to join the cub scouts…
Yeah, and high school students will have to (be required) do the community service if they ‘choose’ to get an education and graduate.
Sam- So citizens of all ages are going to receive $4,000 tax credit as well ? What about those that have less taxes than $4,000. Do they get a check ?
$ 80.00 per hour for college age and up… $ 40 a hour for High school age. Not bad.. But most high school students don’t need tax credit, they must get cash. All this every year or 4 years ? That could be a whole lot of money. What is cost of this program ? Obviously it depends on how many take advantage. Does the Government have the money ?
Who is going to run this program. College age to 55. There are going to have to manage all of America. Sam did it say ? What about disabled ? Are they just out of luck ?
Maybe my state or county regulations are unusual, but I was forced to do community service during middle and high school in order to graduate. Personally, I think it’s a good thing. I had experiences I wouldn’t have had if I hadn’t been required to go out and participate in my community, and if I had children I’d like them to have similar experiences.
We already force children to go to school, forcing them to go to participate a little bit in their community doesn’t seem much more outrageous to me.
I totally agree with you Nate about this being indentured servatude.Indentured servatude isn’t volunteering and re-distribution of other peoples wealth is not being charitable. I think we should take a lesson that we have been hearing for the past four years from our liberal left friends….”DISSENT IS PATRIOTIC”
Ind- I agree about high scool students doing community service. I guess you have read the comments
“We already force children to go to school, forcing them to go to participate a little bit in their community doesn’t seem much more outrageous to me. ”
This. I agree it needs a bit more explanation, but it’s not outrageous.
And “So citizens of all ages are going to receive $4,000 tax credit as well ? What about those that have less taxes than $4,000. Do they get a check ?”
You missed the context. The $4000 is for college. You do 100 hours of service, you get $4000 of your tuition paid for.
Since I am 54 and required, I get notthing?
Serafina–I re-read. You are correct. However, Are High school students going to be released from classes, or is time from their free time. If free tme, are they paid.
Story updated, the page was changed to remove the “requirement” and make it optional with regard to a $4,000 tuition credit for college students. I have documented it above.
The original version I documented never discussed it being optional like the new version does.
We have experienced CHANGE already, since they changed the page in record time amid criticism and question.
Another result of this is the military. If a kid has a choice between making believe he’s a carpenter for 100 hours or protecting your country it seems a no brainer he is going to join the MESSIAHCORPS. I can see the United states being without a military to defend us in no time especially since the ROTC isn’t allowed on many campuses today.OH !!! thats the intention of the Liberal Left.!!!
JD, I’m not saying Obama is going to be the Antichrist, but the names that are given to him (Messiah, chosen one, President of the world) suggest that his controllers, the wealthy elite who dictate America’s policies and control the world economy, would LIKE to see him as the leader of the world. It sure seems like Obama has the POTENTIAL to be the Antichrist, but that doesn’t mean he WILL be.
Thank-you Nate for not just giving Obama benefit of the doubt. You got the facts and corrected when facts was presented to you. Good job.
Well that figures. Obama’s website has removed the part about it being a “requirement”, probably because of backlash.
I wish people would get the message that Barack Obama is a phony who started out talking about the end of the war on terror, then flipped to say he supports the war on terror, and who couldn’t cover up the Reverend Wright issue. I don’t know why the Council on Foreign Relations, which controls the mainstream media, would compel the media to release the Rev. Wright tapes and make Obama look so bad. For a while, McCain was gaining as Obama declined in speaking skill under questioning about Rev. Wright. And mudslinging between Hillary and Obama also gave McCain a boost. So why was Obama the globalists’ choice in the end?
In any case, I am encouraged that people who care about the Constitution have found new unity now that Obama has been elected. I think we can successfully fight him and the “new world order” he tries to usher in.
Christopher…..Just one minor correction. In the Dali-Bamas case it’s “NEW WORLD ODOR”
Indeed, D.D.Mao!
I think you guys should cool out. This was a campaign promise he made – Obama doing what he said he was going to do, as far back as the primaries if I recall correctly! You really think he’s trying to pull a fast one? This isn’t a new plan of action, it’s what he told us he had planned months ago.
Legitimate criticism is good and necessary, but you’re going to have a long 4 years ahead if you jump at every shadow. Settle down and wait for a real reason to Obama-bash, you know there will be plenty of good opportunity ahead.
Ind- Obama site felt it was a big deal. Must have received many e-mails, because the site changed it at night. Got rid of “required” and changed to “option”. Plus added “$4,000″ as Nate stated. Debate preaty much stopped after correction.
This is still over the top (not that other elements of “America Serves” get a pass):
BTW I remember reading about a speech that Michelle Obama recently gave (to UCLA students?) in which she made a big point of needing to prepare for service to the country.
That is another thing to look into. I wrote CHANGE.GOV: America Serves – “Work Brings Freedom” last night. I will add this information, but the point of that post stands.
Thank you for your timely, now information, Nate.
“You really think he’s trying to pull a fast one?”
Yes. He’s trying to push forced labor on my descendants. He’s doing so by referring to it as “volunteering” when if fact it is exactly the opposite. Yes, Newspeak is a way of pulling a fast one and if enough dopes fall for it the hammer (and sickle) falls on me and mine also.
I can’t believe you all are taking this so seriously.
Firstly, What is the big deal? Even though you all are looking at is negatively… If my son was required to put in 50 hours a year back into the community in high school or middle school in order to graduate, I wouldn’t care.
However, he is not. This is not a mandatory thing. If he chooses to give back to the community and joins a program at his school than he will have a goal or “requirement” to reach 50 hours.
Indi – “I think you guys should cool out. This was a campaign promise he made – Obama doing what he said he was going to do, as far back as the primaries if I recall correctly! You really think he’s trying to pull a fast one? This isn’t a new plan of action, it’s what he told us he had planned months ago.”
You are 100% right on this Indi. I know this is a normal response by the right since their candidate lost because the left went through this twice when Gore and Kerry lost. This is week one after the election.
It will be interesting 1 year from now to see what all is being said and the arguments being made.
The only people I know calling Obama the “ONE” or Messiah or Savior are conservative right wingers on this web site. I’m glad you think of Obama so highly, but it’s a bit over the top, so maybe you should stop.
The Messiah was involved in another educational program. It waa grant from private source that was awarded o Ayers. Ombam Gave the money out. One group receiving the money was Acorn..
We have this in Vancouver Canada. All high school graduates must do a mininum of 30 hours of volunteer/community service as part of our graduation portfolio which is required for us to graduate. Most of us end up doing more than neccessary because the experience is a lot more of thrill than expected. (Mainly because it gives us an excuse to leave class xD.)
Bill Hedges
“The Messiah was involved in another educational program. It waa grant from private source that was awarded o Ayers. Ombam Gave the money out. One group receiving the money was Acorn.. ”
Could you give us some sources if where you got this information from?
Dreadsen
Your thinking hat is not being worn today. I read it on fact check.. How could you vote for Obama and not know the basic history of him ? You will see it on a famous commentary of Conservative Gal as well.
Bill
Did i ever say that i was voting for Obama?
I was just asking for the link. But i was also assuming that you were talking about something new and not something old as well.
Nate, good catch. I still have many questions about this “service”. Like what exactly will he be requiring students to volunteer for? What programs, and will they be programs that parents will approve of, as parents still have the last word in the use of time of their children. I can’t help but recall the various videos that surfaced during the campaign – the one of the children that was really scary, and the military looking high school students in formation chanting for obama. And how much of this “service” will interfere with the already crammed schedules of families everywhere – between extra-curricular school activities and family and church activities, our families are already not able to spend enough quality time with their children. Will they now become obama’s little foot soldiers or what?
As long as he only “encourages” those in my age range, we’ll get along fine. I devote more time to volunteerism than most, but that time will be of my choosing as to when and for whom.
I fear this plan, even in it’s editing, is over the top.
Dreadsen Nov 10th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Bill
Did i ever say that i was voting for Obama?
I was just asking for the link. But i was also assuming that you were talking about something new and not something old as well.
……………………………………………………
I am a firm beleiver that words speak for themselves. I did not mention anything new, but you came to an assumption, without new material being presented, that I have new source,,I guess.
I am wrong for assuming you voted for Obama.
Now, what do you say about your assumption ?
Bill,
Can you provide a link?
Do not respond to me with anything other than a link to the information you are talking about. I looked on fact check like you said and didn’t find the ACORN link you are talking about.
Please provide link.
I am sorry I hurt your feelings on other treads. My comments on you are not on links, but seen in your commends.
You general respond to me. I advised you in other tread
. You may wish to ,, carefully,,read and not add meanings that are not there
The monent everyone uses links or required by Nate, I will follow his rules. Certainly not yours….sorry
Jd or is it Dreadson..Do you know Nate ???
Here I am discussing with Dreadsen, and Jd responds. Are you using at least 2 names ? When you get embarassed you change name ? I wonder ! If true, is that all right with Nate ??
Bill, as mention in other posts… No, we are not the same, but, please, waste Nate’s time checking our IPs.
He will vouch that we are different people.
Bill – “You may wish to ,, carefully,,read and not add meanings that are not there”
The problem is that people like myself do read your posts carefully and, outside of the fact that they are difficult to follow, they are mostly just opinion with no reference to real information for the rest of the site to verify so they can form their opinion.
You are correct in saying that no one can force you to hold your opinions to mine or others criticisms but it would be nice if you voluntarily did. To do this, it will become important to list where you get your information when you attempt to say certain things are fact… like the national debt statements.
I know you are harmless and do not mean to be scrutinized but because you offer a different Point of view it would be nice if I could see what you are looking at so I could verify my information against yours to see if there needs to be an adjustment in my views.
‘You general respond to me”
“You may wish to ,, carefully,,read and not add meanings that are not there”
“The monent everyone uses links or required by Nate, I will follow his rules. Certainly not yours….sorry ”
Michael said he woud heck
Michael, Babs, Conservativ Gal, etc. do not seem to have problems understanding me. Maybe you havea personal issue.
national debt statements…In a thread I was talking about national debt. You agrue against me using planned budget. If you can not understand I am talking apples, and you are saying I am wrong with your talk about oranges, then shame on you.
By the way, I have given you 3 choices recently. You choice the confrontaion. Ok
How about, those who get a job will get their healthcare subsidized. Or better yet do your 100 hours of “community service” and we will subsidize your healthcare.
Don’t those who work hard already do their part by paying heavily into the tax system to support many of those who don’t [won't] work. I like the system that helps those that choose to help themselves.
Get off your butts and quit looking for another entitlement.
I didn’t realize this was going on.
Bill if you don’t remember there was a time where you and Babs were tag teaming people. You two had cleaned an entire thread out lol.
I think it was Indiminded who asked “What is this the Babs and Bill show?”
I never suspected that this pattern meant that you and Babs were the same person.
The only reason why I was questioning your info is because if someone else is reading this and no one challenges what you claim they may walk away thinking it is true. Another reason is I repeated something you said to someone else and i ended up looking stupid because it was waaaay off. If something sounds like it may be far off I would like a reference.
Dreadsen
You contine your ,, thing..about me asking Michael if you and JD are same person. If you think I and Babs are the same person, I take that as a major compliment. Thank-you..You made fun of me in the other comment. OK. But write a polite comment, like above. I feel respect should be returned.
As far as your last statement. Do as you wish.
Dreadsen
In your last paragraph, if that is what you want to do, that is fine. I do make mistakes. If shown to me in a polite manner, I will admit I am wrong. As I would expect the same from you. With no excuses.
In another comment I said you were a Democrat. You corrected me. I said something like, I made mistake. No excusses. You made a wrong assumption as well in same comment.
And there you go again, Dreadsen. Why do you feel you must challenge people’s opinions in comments? They’re opinions, and everyone is entitled to them. I don’t believe that Nate intended for every commenter to the site to have their integrity or their questions challenged, but muddying the waters seems to be your favorite past time.
It’s the articles presented on site that must be factual, not the comments. If it were, we would wear ourselves out correcting yours.
Can any one check to see if Babs and Bill are the same people?
A long while ago, I remember mentioning that Bill is babs barking dog… and as time passed, I believe it to be all the more true.
Babs – “hey’re opinions, and everyone is entitled to them.”
You are right and people are entitled to question Opinions. Since when is challenging someone’s point “having thier integrity” questioned?
Since you brought Nate into this… lets see what he has to say.
Nate – “I believe debate and argument are what make democracy great. So welcome one and all with all points of view. As I see it, everyone is entitled to their own (at some times incorrect) opinion.”
So it looks like Bill is entitled to his opinion and I am allowed to debate and argue the points.
Sorry Bill, your Opinions are going to have to be challenged. I hope you don’t feel like I am going after your integrity when I say that.
Babs, It is funny how you only go to the side of Bill and other conservatives when their points and Opinions are being questioned and try to look like the savior but yet you question the other members on here regularly.
Instead of trying to protect your little cubs, why don’t you help in the discussion. Maybe there is something everyone is missing.
When Babs says something I disagree with, I will disagree with her. I am certain she would do the same to me. I expect that.
You were implying something in your last sentance. You did not have the fortitude to out-right say it. I have never meet Babs, but would be honored to do so.
As you pointed out, what Babs said..,is.. what Nate says.
I agree with both. JD, there is a style that is wrong. Nate has corrected you for obsene comments. Another is personal attacks. You seem to live for that. At times others respond and you are in hog heaven.
Jd I don’t like you. Now, respond using you wisdom. I know you will enjoy.
And there you go again, JD. Pretending to be Dreadsen. I’m going to agree with Bill at least one more time. I don’t like you, either. And when I post a comment to Dreadsen, it’s for Dreadsen.
Fascinating infighting…but I think that the bigger picture is being missed.
Everyone’s getting caught up in the school requirement. And the advocates rightly say a lot of schools already require something. Another reason I homeschool, one of many. Before someone starts in, my daughter is very well-socialized and active in the community. The idiocy is going to cause more dropouts, and the Planners will find something else to blame for that.
Obama wants ALL “citizens” to serve. ALL. And his Emanuel even has a plan, or rather The Plan. Eighteen to 42, you will serve.
I will not serve. Ever. When they come for me to force my involvement in Obama’s Health Corps because I hold a nursing license, I will surrender it. I do enough. And I will not work in a soup kitchen or pick up garbage on the roadside, or any of the other stupid tasks that are supposed to make us better citizens. Forced Service does not make you a better human being. It just makes you angry and even less “civic-minded.” People who choose to serve are those who enjoy serving already.
And I am not now nor have I ever been…a Republican.
But I do NOT advocate the “wait and see,” “give him a chance” view. That gets you a slow (or not-so-slow) chipping away of rights. All under the guise of “we know what’s good for you,” and “what, you mean you aren’t a PATRIOT?” Heard enough of that over the last 8 years, now being spouted by the other side! Proof that there isn’t really any difference at all…which I already knew.
So pay attention, it’s not just the kids he’s after. Your mother/grandmother may have to work in a soup kitchen for her SS check. While you spend three months a year at camp practicing military maneuvers for the Civilian National Security Force, or training for the Truth Squad, if you’re a really good Citizen. Otherwise, it’s an orange vest and dead animals on the roadside.
Think it can’t be forced? The bills are already in the Congress. The Wave of Change is a tsunami.
I can’t believe I just read all these opinions. If we hold our breath until everyone ‘feels like doing it’ then we’ll be dead and gone pretty quick. Noone wants to volunteer anymore, to the degree that they are afraid to even find out what needs to be done. I don’t see any problem with higher standards being set so that college money is an actual reward instead of a doorprize.
Mar 26th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
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