McCain hits Florida hard, Clinton campaigns with Obama

After the 2000 debacle, when we all watched stunned over hanging chads, the state of Florida seems to be gearing up as one of the major linchpins in Sen. Obama’s and Sen. McCain’s strategy for victory in 6 days. On Wednesday night, Obama wrapped up his 30 minute tv ad speaking from a Florida rally. Sen. McCain has also been spending time and resources in the state hoping to prevent a red/blue switch with the aid of Florida Governor Charlie Crist.

Report on McCain’s efforts from USAToday:

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. — John McCain criss-crossed Florida on Wednesday, trying to keep the state in the Republican column as some supporters worried about whether he can catch the better-funded Barack Obama.

“I wish I didn’t feel like it was over,” said Dawn Poole, a McCain backer who saw him speak at a lumberyard in Miami. “It looks that way, but it’s not going to stop me from voting.

“Maybe we’ll be surprised,” she said.

Greta Rodriguez, a retired administrative assistant from Miami, is “hoping and praying” for McCain to prevail. While Obama is “a little bit ahead in the poll,” a “silent majority” could emerge and pull out Florida for McCain, she said. McCain needs to open the “Pandora’s Box” of Obama’s background to win, said John Piscola, a former New York school principal who lives in Miami Beach.

A series of Florida polls released between Monday and Wednesday showed Obama with anywhere from a 2- to a 7-percentage-point lead.

“We’ve got to win the state of Florida, my friends, and we’re going to win here,” McCain said in Miami.

Republican Gov. Charlie Crist and Sen. Mel Martinez, who traveled with McCain on Wednesday, echoed his optimism about Florida.

McCain continued to hammer Obama on Wednesday on the economy and national security, saying the Democrat lacked the experience to handle either.

The question is whether Obama “has what it takes to protect America from Osama bin Laden, al-Qaeda, and other grave threats in the world,” McCain said in Tampa. “And he has given you no reason to answer in the affirmative.”

Retired major general J. Scott Gration, an Obama campaign spokesman, criticized McCain for supporting a Bush foreign policy that has not captured bin Laden.

While Obama prepared a 30-minute commercial, which ran during prime time Wednesday, McCain taped an interview with CNN’s Larry King Live in Tampa.

Video report from the Associated Press of McCain hitting the hispanic vote in southern Florida:

Meanwhile, also in Florida, Obama has pulled out the big guns in the form of former President Bill Clinton, report from Yahoo News:

KISSIMMEE, Fla. – Portraying harmony like never before, Bill Clinton hailed Barack Obama on Wednesday, a power pairing designed to inspire Democrats already smelling victory.

“Barack Obama represents America’s future, and you’ve got to be there for him next Tuesday,” Clinton, with Obama at his side, said to the cheers of a partisan crowd.

Heaping praise on President Bush’s predecessor, Obama said of Clinton: “In case all of you forgot, this is what it’s like to have a great president.”

Obama even prodded the crowd to cheer more, saying “Bill Clinton. Give it up!” And there was Clinton, laughing with gusto every time Obama jokingly mocked rival John McCain.

The joint appearance of the future president and perhaps the next one was the first of the campaign. It capped one of the most ambitious days of Obama’s White House run, including a 30-minute prime-time infomercial in which he tried to seal the deal with voters.

It wasn’t so long ago that Clinton, still a giant of his party, was publicly criticizing Obama as untested and unready for the job of president. His wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton, engaged in a grueling and ultimately losing battle with Obama for the party’s nomination.

The two men later smoothed over matters. And lately, Hillary Clinton has been out campaigning for Obama. Wednesday it was Bill Clinton’s time, in his element.

He clasped Obama’s hand and held it high when the men came on stage. Clinton made a methodical case for Obama, describing him as a strong thinker with smart policies.

In one of his testimonials, he praised Obama for seeking the advice of experts — including him and his wife — on how to handle the country’s financial crisis before acting.

“Folks, we can’t fool with this,” Clinton said. “Our country is hanging in the balance. And we have so much promise and so much peril. This man should be our president.”

Obama said of the two Clintons: “I am proud to call them my friends.”

Through the day, in two states, Obama unleashed a bleak portrayal of a McCain presidency and told a national TV audience that “the time for change has come.”

Ahead in the polls, flush with cash and blanketing himself all over television, Obama said he is counting down the days but not letting up. The election looms on Tuesday.

Video report on the Clinton/Obama rally in Florida, via CNN:


Local WALA Fox 10 report on Obama volunteers heading from Alabama to Georgia to help Obama’s efforts in the all-important swing state:

Florida is also dealing with a controversial new voting law, which CNN reports on here:

Florida went for Bush in 2000 by just 0.1% and then again in 2004 by around 5%, it isn’t a sure thing for either side. The one thing, which I think is to McCain’s advantage, is that he has Charlie Crist by his side who has been very popular in Florida. On the other hand, Obama has Bill Clinton who is popular everywhere with Democrats and many independents.

We’ll just see, but both campaigns are counting on Florida so it will be interesting to watch on Election Day.

  • Clinton really hasn’t shown much support for Obama. I’m not shocked really considering his wife almost had the nomination. Also I do believe Clinton loves this country, the same goes for his wife, but not that Obama. I’m sure it’s hard for Bill to see the country he once was President of, stand to be taken over by that socialist.

    At this point I could live with Hillary as commander and chief. Hell, I’d even take another Bill, Obama makes Horny old Bill look like an angel in comparison to Obama and Friends.

  • NiceKing

    seems to me that the republicans, and the conservatives in florida are trying everything they can to swing florida into McSame’s pocket. they will soon enforce this law “if your hair style doesn’t match the one on ur drivers license it aint you…no vote”.
    conservative gal, u dont seem to know what ur talking abt. what do u expect from clinton? go from door to door and campaign for him?? the obama campaign is highly strategic, and they only call him in if he’s needed thats why they kept him nd his wife out until now. so now is their time…
    by the way no1 is perfect. not bill, not hillary, not bush, not obama, and definatly not McCain. he’s even worse than obama. hes not an honourable man coz he promised to run a good campaign nd now look what desperation has turned him into?? havin said that i believe you’ve already heard of “the keating five”. if not research it. you conservatives think just serving in the army qualifies you to be a president. how pathetic!! McCain have no strong education background, cant even use a pc. the only things he’s ever done was being a pilot in the army and even that guess what?? he was brought down by a vietnamese pilot in the 60’s. so clearly he even sucked at that. i mean how bad do you have to be in order to get dropped by a VIETNAMESE pilot?????
    yet you guys claim he got judgement to lead…lol his wrong judgement landed him in the hands of the enemy, going to iraq, nd famously VP pick, Palin…
    however u are more than welcome to join the winning side but i gotta tell ya, you just cant stop the takeover. you ever heard the saying…if you cant beat them, join them?

  • NiceKing

    oh conservative gal, did i mention that McSame doesnt evenm know how to use a mobile phone? so imagine how he’s gona answer that ringing phone at 3am in the morning…oh maybe use federal money, tax payers hard earned money to hire someone to pick up calls, and check his e-mail for him. and hes the guy who recently promised to cut federal spending…lol
    oh haven said that he just blew $150,000 in 2weeks on palin’s wardrobe in this financial tsunami. cut spending my ass! yeh i said it. my ass! as my grandma used to say, you gotta learn how to wipe your nose 1st before you attempt to wipe ur butt. $150,000??? on what? diamond undies??coz i really dont see any clothe she wears that matches up to that price…
    the guy doesnt even know how many houses he got 4 flip sake…
    with all these around him if you still dont think he’s a bad choice then im just done talking… go waste ur vote on tuesday…

  • Hey man, drink some coffee and sober up, it seems like you’ve had a few too many! You seem to forget that you’re not in the U.S.A, but you’ll wake up tomorrow and remember that you’re not eligible to vote in America.

  • Pats

    Folks, this campaign is over. Obama is president. The doubt on his experience is burried and must be forgotten.President Clinton has said it all. The interview for presidency is in the campaign, were candidates demonstrate their ability to decide, judge, organise,lead, deliver their message and withstand pressure. This is the man who has been there and led the American economy from strength to strength. No one can dispute this fact.
    Yes, he said before that Obama wasn’t prepared but that was in comparison to Hillary Clinton. With Hillary out of the way, he is saying that Obama is better than McCain. That’s from his experience as a PRESIDENT of the United States of America, not the experience of a POW, not the experience of a Senator but president of US. Can any of the Bush say the same for McCain? Nobody will listen to them and you know why.
    President Clinton hit the final nail in the coffin when he said Obama seeks advice from him and his wife before he says or does anything. Do you remember how often Obama refers to President Clinton’s era? This proves that he’s surrounded by the people that have the RIGHT experience for the presidency.
    Can anybody say that President Clinton is a socialist? Can anybody give one single reason why President Clinton will support socialism? Common Americans, embrace the hard facts and vote the right man for the right position. “In God We Trust” God bless America!!!!!

  • The Patsy ignoramus said this “Folks, this campaign is over. Obama is president.”

    You pretentious, arrogant fool. We haven’t even voted yet and you can’t even vote in our election.

    I will be partying for a month when your foolishness is shoved back down your throat because Barry’s supporters don’t show up since they think it’s over, what a joke.

    Pats, the fat lady hasn’t sung, and you’re so eager to crown Barry as your king to save you that you don’t want to let Americans vote in OUR OWN ELECTION.

    Polls are all shifting toward McCain and Palin, they will be victorious because you Barry supporters, even the ones in this county, are now complacent and arrogant thinking you’ve won when the race isn’t over. Go ahead and think that way, you’ll be sorry.

    Pride goes before a fall, remember that.

    So shut up and butt out, better luck next time.

  • Pats

    Thanks SuzieQ for your reaction. There’s an adage that says ” Don’t argue with a fool because your audience will not know the difference”. Lets wait and see. Call me more names if you want. That might be the only language you know.

  • Independent Woman

    Conservative Girl- FYI American citizens abroad are eligible to vote. Do your homework!

  • Liberal U.S. Friend

    Conservative Gal, I think most of outside of the U.S.A. are very well aware of the fact that we are not eligable to vote. However, the U.S. elections are important not only to you as an maerican citizen but to the global economy and world peace in general. The U.S. has historically been a provider of freedom and liberty for all (meaning rest of the world as well). The beaches of Normandy just to mention one historical key event that changed the world to the better. But, why is it that close to 88% of the world population think Obama should be elected president of the U.S.A (polls on this site)? Because, the last eight years of foreign policies from the U.S. has resulted in an extremely dried out government finances and very little concern made to increase the wellfare of regular Americans. That type of policy does spread rings on the water to the rest of the world as financial markets react and are extremely sensitive to any military acts or wars in general. The U.S. has consucted war since sep 11th. Don´t get me wrong, I believe it was great to get Saddam out of the way. But, to invade and restore “democracy” in Iraq has been a grave mistake and the citizens of the world are now tasting the effects of weak and unstructured financial policies over the last 8 years. Obama will restore confidence in that the U.S.A can restore the government spending balance to where the spending should be i.e. to the American peole. And, in addition, surely you must agree that Obama is stronger both in terms of smart financial policies & strategy in general. MaCain is to the rest of us here in the world simply another retired war hero trying to make a case out of military achievements. That does not make you a great president!

  • NiceKing

    conservative gal “Hey man, drink some coffee and sober up, it seems like you’ve had a few too many! You seem to forget that you’re not in the U.S.A, but you’ll wake up tomorrow and remember that you’re not eligible to vote in America.”

    i have said it over and over again that you just dont know what you’re talking about, now let me add this. you dont know nothing about the elections, and nothing about politics. i am not in america now, but yes i will be voting at the US embassy. you’re like a kid who thinks mum & dad is always right. i bet you only support McCain because 2 of ur frends does, or simply ur mum does. just weigh their pros and cons and vote wisely. are we gonna continue to fund a dead war whilst our economy is in shatters?
    by the way see you couldnt even respond to any of my previous arguments so i’m not gona pile up more than you can handle. it will hurt me to see you break down and cry…i just hope you see thhe bright side before its too late…

    suzie fat lady aint singing this time…she lost her voice so the skinny lady just sung…you just cant stop the take over..and dont be fooled for once and think complacency is going to affect this…everyone wants to be part of the history changing moment…so yes all our hands will be in the pot to help and bring this home…
    you cant stop the take over…if you cant be them, join them.

    VOTE FOR OBAMA Y’all!!!!!

  • Independent Woman

    NiceKing,
    I will see you at the Embassy.

    Just as necessary to correct CG on her miss statement regarding voting eligibility and a previous inaccuracy from SuzieQ, suggesting that a coment from one with a foreign IP address denotes that the opinion is from a nontaxpayer, (ALL US CITIZENS ABROAD PAY US TAXES), I have to correct you on your statement.

    John McCain was an aviator in the US Navy, not the Army. Entrance to the US Naval Academy requires top academic success as well as a nomination from a US official. Though he finished near the bottom of his class, he did graduate with a degree in Engineering.

    If you don’t agree with his policies, or the running of his campaign, fair enough, but as a US serviceman and former POW, he doesn’t deserve ridicule for having been shot down in the Vietnam War.

  • Babs

    What you don’t have a clip of here is Clinton’s stump speech yesterday before meeting up with Obama. I caught it live on the tube. He said (and I’m paraphasing):

    “When the economic crisis hit, he (Obama) got on the phone and called all his advisors, then he got on the phone and called Hillary, then he called me, then he called a bunch of other people, because he wanted to UNDERSTAND what was really going on”

    I’m sure that was meant to be positive, but it made Obama sound like a floundering fool. Yeah, Bill’s really in Obama’s corner. Go Bill.

  • the_don

    The top US official that got mccain in the US Naval Academy was his dad, an Admiral in the Navy.

  • Pats

    Babs, I want to disagree with your last comments. Certainly it was meant to be positive and did not make Obama sound like a floundering fool at all. It did not even make him look like a fool nor one who flounders. To use some of your words, he wanted to understand what was REALLY going on. From that context, I’ll say he knew what was going on but wanted confirmation from his advisors and the opinion of the Clintons.
    Obama is vying for a position that the Clintons have handled before. Seeking their advice even though he knew what was happening should not make him look like a floundering fool, neither should phoning his advisors do. I’ll be grateful if you will help me have access to the clip you referred to.

  • EricF

    blah blah blah. face the facts its over and McCain will be the next president. i hope all you libtards move after the election is over. i mean holy crap if you want socialism there are a bunch of countries out there for you. i mean this with all seriousness, what are you waiting for? you want socialism so go get it. its out there waiting for you. oh but you want to live in America the greatest country ever, well how did it get that way? it wasnt through socialism. idiots. get the tissues ready, you will need them on Nov 5th 🙁

  • Pats

    It’s not easy to concede defeat. Tempers flare and thinking is interrupted. But, what cannot be undone must be enjoyed. Hearts burn!!!!!!!!!! Sorry about that. C U inauguration day.

  • susan

    Good Morning,
    Don`t get uptiht with your felow Americans living abroad,they feel the way the rest of the world does.
    Obama is not only the best choice,but an excellent one!
    Mccain is a 72 year old washed p politician,less not forget this is not his first attempt at the WH,then there is Sarah who is certainly doing her best to learn fast,fumbling all the way.Is this an ideal ticket at this time,Obama VP has more experience than McCain and in the right areas,they will be a great team.Come on guys,Sarah doesn`t even read magazines,forget a newspaper.Listen to your fellow Americans abroad,and yes they can vote

  • EricF

    blah blah blah blah. thats all i see when Obama supporters post nonsense. i mean, you could at least come up with a good argument instead of spamming nonsense. hope you got those tissues ready because its not even gonna be close. McCain by a landslide. 🙂

  • susan

    dream on

  • JD

    I really think we all need to face the music and realize that there are no more independents and no one is going to be switching sides.

    It really is going to be which candidate can get the most voters to the polls.

    I stand by Obama’s ground game and for that reason Obama will win the election. 🙂

    But I am not sure that Obama will win florida.

  • Pats

    This victory is not going to be celebrated in a tight room. Only an open stadium can accommodate such an occassion. All and sundry are invited. Trust us, organisation is not our problem. There’s no infighting, we’re all united with one purpose. Come one, come all! Obama in power!

  • susan

    If Obama organizes American like he has his campain,then things will start to look up for America very soon.Obama/Biden/2008!

  • EricF

    its the economy stupid!

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/mccain_trusted_more_on_taxes_and_economy

    McCain Trusted More on Taxes and Economy

    ahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

    its OVER!

    GAME OVER!

  • Babs

    Pat, I don’t have a video, when I said I saw it on the “tube”, I meant the TV, it was a live feed during the speech. You might look around a news site or youtube.

  • susan

    You people should be much cheerier considering you believe your candidate is a shoe in and I suppose I would believe that too,except,I keep reading these words like,falling behind,campain desperate,broke,struggling,trying to hang on,What does this all mean?

  • Drek

    Long time reader, first time poster (to be read in my best radio caller voice)

    I find it peculiar to site a Rasmussen Report and then declare victory for McCain when they also show a a 5% national lead for Obama and a projected (conservative) electoral result of Obama 260 – McCain 163 and a more liberal, leaners included projection of Obama 313 – McCain 174.

    My point in this isn’t to say that Rasmussen is correct or incorrect in any given poll, nor that their conclusions on either instance are a 100% for either candidiate. My point is that it is too early for either party to declare victory. It just doesn’t make any sense. This isn’t Hoover v. FDR as much as some would like it to be.

    I just don’t like to see the intelligent debate and discussion that I have come to expect and enjoy from this site to deteriorate into mindless Obama/McCain has it sealed and all you neo-con Bushers/ObababotZombies are in for a shock!!!

  • Independent Woman

    Eric,
    I clicked on your link. The Rasmussen poll puts Obama ahead by 5 points.
    Are you sure you want to laugh about that?

  • EricF

    IW, every poll is tightening. McCain is now ahead on taxes and the economy. every day more and more comes out about Obama and his bad decisions and bad associates. at least half of the Hillary supporters are going to vote McCain. the momentum has shifted. a woman has testified about ACORN and what they were doing there. too many things going against Obama right now.

    its over. Obama is toast.

    imho i think Obama will face criminal charges when all is said and done. this guy is very corrupt and people are taking notice.

  • Babs

    Independent Woman, EricF’s point was that for the first time McCain is leading in the polls regarding trust on the economy. That is a major difference since 9/14. So much has been said about the polls in general, while it’s interesting, it’s not conclusive.

  • Independent Woman

    Babs,
    There’s talk about emerging markets moving out of the bear market, as they moved up yesterday 20%. Dow ended yesterday above 9,000 and the FTSE is over 4300 this morning. All of this could be helping McCain’s chances. Who knows what will happen to the markets later today. I suppose it’s anyone’s guess, like the election- hardly GAME OVER.

  • Bill Hedges

    There is some hope bottom was hit. I use to trade UNF for around $42, dropped to $29. Signs are its going up. With Fed demanding banks to loan things could be looking up. Hope no more sub-prime.. And no mixing different grade home bundles.

  • Bill Hedges

    FactCheck.co has come out with results for Obama’s speach last night

  • Drek

    I’ll be interested to hear more about the FDIC/Treasury mortgage restructuring proposal that’s supposed to be coming down the pike. I work at a bank (a small, non-lendeing local institution. I promise I didn’t break the American economy!) and what we’re hearing is that the proposal will governmentally back some millions of mortgages if the lending institutions will renegotiate with people who are in trouble but aren’t already in forclosure. It seems to be fairly accepted that it will be presented but Bush has already insinuated that it may not get much White House support or even full opposition.

    It’s too bad that this proposal will likely not be pushed through quick enough to convince the candidates to comment on it. I’d be interested to see how socialist they find this move in light of the current bailout and regulation discussions.

  • Steve

    His middle name is Hussein! His pastor hates whites and damn America! He’s an arab! His wife is ashamed to be American! He went to a madrassa in Indonesia!He launched his career in a terrorist’s living room! He’s going to raise taxes! and now the latest installment: he’s a Marxist!

    Come on people, can’t you see straight through these politics of fear, or have you been hammered too much by them the past 8 years to even notice anymore?

    Obama is the embodiment of the American dream, and there’s no question that he loves the US. Open your eyes and see that it won’t be armageddon when he becomes president, but he’ll be an intelligent, inspiring and uniting figure that can get America back on track both in rebuilding international respect and the national economy.

    All Mccain/Palin seem to do for the past month is attack Obama with this nonsense and cultivating this fear, while they should be focusing on discussing their own plans. And while doing so not constantly comparing them to Obama’s, but talk about what they themselves can actually do for Americans.

    Mccain had my support initially, then he picked Palin and started campaigning like this. This made it clear to me that he’s the past and Obama’s the future

  • EricF

    lol you libtards are too funny. first of all the numbers dont add up, this has been confirmed. there is no way possible Obama can even come close to keeping his promises without taxing nearly everyone more.

    now, if Obama does get elected there will be alot less “rich people” to tax because the wealth will leave. i dont know what part of that people dont understand. people are already pulling money out of the market on fears of an Obama presidency. what do you think will happen if he does get elected? im predicting a crash and it will happen very fast. believe me or not there are alot of people waiting on the results of this election to decide what to do with their money. alot, alot of wealthy people.

    dont worry about it though, you will get a welfare check once a year. good luck with that.

  • Pats

    EricF, fear of the unknown is really driving you. People have always behaved that way when there’s a change. Don’t worry about those going. There are others preparing to come and there are others within, who are ready to take over and do better. ” In God We Trust” not in men.

  • EricF

    sure Pat because people are just dying to open a business in America with our high taxes. too funny. heres something for you to watch on the false messiah…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah9W24oMIRc

    is this what we can expect from a president obama? you decide.

  • EricF

    Pats you are right though, it is the fear of the unknown. look at what little we do know about Obama, its all bad so there is good reason to fear the unknown. what other terrorist friends are out there we havent heard about yet? things that make you go hmmmmm.

  • Bill Hedges

    Pats- The fear of the unknown does not scare me. A man who voted most of the the …present. Voted for tax increase for $42,000. $1 million-a-day habit for Pork barrel spending. From this, I should trust what he promises. Not me.

  • Pats

    The answer is a definit NO. This is not what we can expect from a president Obama. That was a senator Obama, crude and raw. The president Obama we are electing is a groomed and well nutured man. A man, who, through that clip has learned a lot to bring the change America needs today.
    All the hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm you are talking about are past. Indeed not proven. Did you expect President Bush to perform so badly in his second term in office after he has been there for four years? We knew him before we elected him for his first term. We knew him when we elected him for the second term. Did that make him a good president? Will McCain be a good president because of what we know of him?

  • Independent Woman

    EricF, Your prediction is a little late. The markets have already crashed. And yes, you can blame the MSM to an extent, because there certainly has been a lot of “sky is falling” coverage. It makes for a good story and caused quite a bit of panic. It also hurt John McCain since he had already admitted that the economy was not his area of expertise. With interest rates at 1%, why would anyone want to keep money in cash (beyond the short term)? After tax and inflation you’d be losing money.

    I hope you’re right Bill Hedges, and we’ve hit the bottom.

  • b

    Conservative Gal: “Also I do believe Clinton loves this country, the same goes for his wife, but not that Obama.”

    That is one of the dumbest and most ignorarnt statements I have read in while about Obama. That comment betrays objectivity and the truth: Obama loves this country, he is not running for President to ruin it. He may not see the country the same as you , or have polcy ideas that you think that he should support, but does not love America…. totally ridiculus comment. As for this socialist stuff,… at this point those comments don’t even warrant a response, only hardcore Republicans beleive that garbage talk.

  • EricF

    ummm Pats who is this “we” you keep speaking of? see that little flag above YOUR post? its not the American flag so ummm yeah…

    in case you didnt notice the video clips are dated, but yeah we should expect a new and better obama in the time he has spent campaigning. pffffft.

    Obama is an admitted cokehead, we all know cokeheads eventually graduate to crackheads. he hangs out with terrorists and other radicals. he wants to take money from those that earned it and give it away in welfare checks.

    now before you say anything i want you to do some research and find out what people are going to get a $500 check and what ones are only going to get a slight tax break.

    he called his own grandmother a racist when it was convenient.

    he went to a racist church for 20years but conveniently didnt know it was a racist church until it was brought to light.

    he has yet to prove he is a natural born citizen let along a legal citizen.

    he voted against a bill to support care for babies born as a result of botched abortion attempts.

    what else do you need to know to see this guy is the biggest joke to ever run for president?

    i bet if i showed you a clip of Obama worshipping the devil you would make some crazy ass excuse about how we need to be more tolerant.

    doesnt matter because its over! its over! its over!

    obama cant win.

    game over.

    McCain is our next president.

  • b

    EricF: George Bush was a cokehead and a severe alchoholic. Plus, there is no devil.

  • EricF

    b: typical liberal response

    take the spotlight off by deflecting blame. Obama has taught you well. 🙂

  • Pats

    Bill, if we had known that Bush’s presidency will end up like this we’d not vote him in. There were high expectations on him but how did it end? There should have been no war in Iraq by now, if things were to happen as he told us.
    Yes, Obama is not reliable according to your data but how reliable is McCain? Have you ever heard of his first wife? What did he do to her when he returned from Vietnam? Just remember the promises we make before and during marriage,” For better and for worse”. A word to the wise is enough. I leave you to think over that.

  • Bill Hedges

    b- Obama wrote a book and said he used coke. Prove Bush use Coke, or was your statement empty wordss to insult

  • b

    You make no sense EricF, I am not deflecting any blame… fire away some good objective commentary don’t just repeat what sean hannity says and then we can have a sensible debate. My point was that George Bush had a prolonged problem with cocaine and alchohol, and I for one don’t really have a problem with that so long as the individual has recovered and has not relapsed, same with Obama…. though Obama said he on a few occasions did cocaine but he really like drinking and smoking pot IN HIGH SCHOOL, not when he was 27, 28, 29, 30 like old W. See he spent his formative years in his 20’s bettering himself through education while at the same time the erudite, east coast silverspooner George Bush spent those same years blowing his mind out with partying. Both McCain and Obama are far more competent and qualified to be President than Bush was.

  • EricF

    Pats you are a f’ing disgrace. that man spent over 5 years in a prison camp getting tortured beyond anything that any of us could stand. he had a chance to leave early and didnt because he is a real American hero. you have some nerve questioning him. bow your head in shame. maggot.

  • EricF

    so he says b, so he says. i think we are all finding out that Obama says alot of things that arent exactly true. for instance he spent 20 years in a church but didnt know the preacher was racist. pfffft. yeah sure i will just take Obamas word as gospel. get a clue.

  • b

    Bill: You see the difference between Obama and Bush now… Bush is secretive and deceptive and not willing to put his record before politics out there for people to judge. He admitted he smoked pot and admitted that he had a severe alchohol problem for years (though he has tried to paly down his problems.) Read what many of his buds from the 1970’s and 1980’s had to say about partying with Bush and maybe you might change your mind, but probably not because you have to be able to take off your partisan shades to get to the truth of it.

  • Tyler

    Eric, I really can’t wait until November 5th. That will certainly be a depressing day for you

  • Pats

    EricF, typical loser. You’ve lost it. Sorry that’s not the language I speak. All you said belong to you. Bye

  • EricF

    b, keep deflecting. just like Obama. you serve your master well.

  • Bill Hedges

    Pats–First 8 years of Bush was fine. Last 2 years of Democrat controled Congress has lead to National debt blow-out. Before bail out. If Congress had controled sub-prime loans as Bush, McCain, and others reccommented, we would not be in the mess we are now in. No one wants wars. More American wars began by Democrat Presidents. But security of America meant war….Yes he is divorced, is sad, but happens. He could have been a POW for shorter time. But choice to stay til others had left. I think the hardship of being a POW may have some cause in his divorce. You know alot of couples divorce once their husbands returned home.

  • Independent Woman

    The most distasteful aspect of this campaign has been the mud slinging by both parties in the form of labels; name calling. It’s ineffective and childish. It reduces credibility of the argument discussed. Must the bitter name calling bleed into the commentary of this blog?

  • b

    EricF and all you other hardcore conservatives… I have no problem with ideas of fiscal conservatism, or libertarian small government ideas but the biggest reason that I am voting for Obama is because I beleive that he makes decisions in a reasoned and pragamtic way, I beleive he has a strong intellectual curiosity and most of all he has not pandered in this campaign to cultural backwaters that beleive the Earth is 6,000 years old (and there goes the science of Geology), or to folks that think every animal was created by the hands of some anthropomorphic elemetary school idea of God, or to folks that beleive that every animal alive today came from Noah’s Ark, or that evolution is some evil and false conspiract. If you literally buy those ancient stories then you have abandoned reason, science and the pursuit of knowledge and have no business occupying the White House. You see I was educated in Jesuit Catholic schools to try and blend my faith with science, philosophy and reason and I fundamentally disagree with those that beleive that these concepts are mutually exclusive. That is probably the biggest problem that I have with Republicans, Sarah Palin and the McCain candidacy.

  • Bill Hedges

    b- Bush old friends talks Obama old friends don’t talk, except for Rev. Wright.

  • b

    Bill in regard to your comments to Pats that does not change the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, it was an illegal war and was totally, totally unnecessary when it came to American security. That does not change the fact that when the war was waged it was waged in the most incompetent of ways with the smallest force they could get away with. That does not change the fact that the man and the group responsible for 9/11 were allowed (by way of incompetent war policy) to flee and regroup. It is a great tragedy that Saddam hung from a rope while bin Laden and al qaeda are still free…. 150,000 troops in Afghanistan would certainly have found and killed bin Laden, but as Bush said time and again he really did not care about bin Laden.

  • EricF

    b, how tolerant of you to bash people that believe in GOD.

  • Bill Hedges

    b- Obama refuses to release his college records. How did he pay for his education ? Please no off-the-cuff answer. Look it up !

  • Babs

    IW, there’s still a lot of debate on the financial networks about the market in regards to the election. Some feel the market drop is partially due to investors pulling out because of Obama’s impending capitol gains tax. According to the figures, 50% of Americans are invested in the stock market to some degree, and those are middle class americans, not the elite wealthy. They invest through DRIP programs, etc., and are now cashing out.

  • b

    Obama paid for his education with student loans, but I do agree with you he should not have sealed his records it seems secretive and deceptive. EricF, I am a Catholic, I beleive in God and Jesus Christ. I am bashing morons that think that science and the great pursuit of knowledge are somehow anti God or anti Jesus.

  • Bill Hedges

    b- not a illegal war. Congress approved and has funded it each year. U.N. aprroved it with resolution ending at end of year. We are in talks to stay longer. Not sure where that stands now. America has killed and caught many terrorist over there. Saddem killed 250,000 inocent people with weapons of mass destruction. I do not feel sorry he hung. I would have been great if Bin Laden had hung to. Bid Laden may not be the great terrorist you may think. Could be the explanation of Bush statement, if he said that.

  • b

    EricF: I would like to add this, if you beleive literally in those ancient stories then geuss what 200 years of Geology is false, 400 years of Astronomy is false, evolution is false, biology is false, all that we have toiled for and struggled for when it comes to science, knowledge and education over the last 200-300 years is somehow false and a conspiracy against God. I beleive as Galileo did a long time ago in his letter to the Grand Duchess of Tuscany when he said that the bible is one book of the truth of the divine but there is another book, the book of nature that also reveals the divine in a wholly different manner than the bible does… If you have not read it before I reccomend thatyou do it is one of the strongest arguments in history for science and faith.

  • Babs

    Just for the record, I believe that evolution to a certain extent is possible, but I believe it was God who started the evolution rolling.

  • Bill Hedges

    b- how do you know he used student loans. Opening records could prove that. I am not interested in his grades. But you may know there are questiona that opening would put to rest. There are so many question about Obama ..Did you look it up on internet as I asked ?

  • EricF

    “I am bashing morons that think that science and the great pursuit of knowledge are somehow anti God or anti Jesus.”

    by that logic b i could call you a moron for thinking Obama will make this country better.

    me, im Christian and proud of it. the Bible is open to interpretation, thats how GOD wanted it.

  • EricF

    lol they are playing clips of B.Clinton stumping for Obama and saying how Obama called all the advisors because he wanted to understand. too funny.

    Bill and Hillary are clearly in the tank for McCain. 🙂

  • Pats

    Bill, I agree with you but when things go wrong the head always carry the blame. He is the most powerful president with all the veto powers.
    On McCain’s divorce, yes his years as a POW might have an effect on his marriage but I strongly beleive it was because Carol Shepp was a cripple and McCain became a celebrity as a returned POW. It even took a long time before he reconciled with his children when he married Cindy. If Carol had not had that car accident and become cripple, may be McCain woulk have been loyal to her and still have her. Don’t you think so?

  • Babs

    Do you know where that clip is on the internet, EricF? I quoted it to Pats earlier and she asked for a video link. I saw it live yesterday on TV, and didn’t have one.

    Clearly. Of course, pundits are calling Joe Biden a “republican plant” as well. 😉

  • b

    In my mind the Iraq War from the begining did not pass the smell test, the administration outright lied and sold us a bill of bull**it to wage it. As to those weapons used against the Kurds in the 80’s…hmmmm… were did he get the mustard gas and other chemical weapons from, dang the US. As to the Shia uprising that was violently suppressed by Saddam after the Gulf War, who agitated and told the Shia leaders that they would be backed up, dang the US… What helicopters was Saddam using to supress that uprising, hmm US choppers. We are not innocent in this, and George W Bush said as much in the best speech of his Presidency, when he said, “That for too long we have operated a foreign policy that secured our interests at the cost of others freedoms and liberties.” There was a number of regimes that could have been taken out that were similar to or worse than tht of Saddam, why Iraq, why the lies? If Bush had said that we gotta take this dictator out because he is evil, we supported him against Iran and had created a monster that needed to be slain then I would have felt much better about the war. Instead Cheney and Rumsfeild spewed lies such as: Saddam has unmanned ariel vehichles that can reach the US in hours with weapons of Mass Destruction… they repeated this charge made on Meet the Press time and again and it is a totally ridiculous lie, then and now.

    As for Bin Laden, HE and his organization ATTACKED AND KILLED OVER 3,000 AMERICANS ON OUR SOIL… NOt the terrorist we think he is? bin Laden, zwahari, KSM they all should have hung before Saddam, Justice my freinds Justice.

  • EricF

    http://www.youtube.com/user/rudygal333

    this profile i think contains the whole rally, its in 5 parts.

  • b

    EricF you can call me a moron for supporting Obama I am fine with that. I have no problem with creationists but I do have a big problem when creationsts try to change the law, and change education and science policy to match their narrow worldview, like they do here in Kansas.

  • Babs

    Pats, analyzing marriages is a little pointless. 50% of all marriages in America end in divorce, that’s a factual statistic. It’s my belief that it still takes two to make a marriage, and two to break it – it’s never one person or one thing. We might as well be analyzing Obama’s failed relationship with that beautiful white lady he was heavily involved with before Michelle. It would serve the same purpose – none.

  • Bill Hedges

    b–You say Obama makes decisions. When votes were being taken in the Senate, often he voted,,,present…Not yea or ney….

  • EricF

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR-FO7KIlKE

    fast forward to 8:00 minute mark and just listen. hilarious.

    “we need a president who wants to understand” lmaooo

    “tell me what the right thing to do is and i’ll figure out how to sell it”

    OMG! too funny.

  • b

    He made 1000’s of votes in the Illinois senate and voted present what like 97 or 102 times. Now I may be trying to abstract to much, but to vote present you have to be there to vote present and also I would venture to geuss there might have been some senatorial strategy in his voting that way, you know in those kinds of bodies there are complexities and nuances that seem ridiculous from the outside point of view. This is probably one of the reasons that Americans have not voted in a Senator for President since JFK, just to much nuance, babble and strategy. Americans want an executive that operates and operated in the black and white more than shades of gray.
    Add to that McCain has missed more votes in the Senate in the last two years than almost any other Senator, even while Obama and HRC were running they still found time to come back and vote twice as much as McCain did.

  • Pats

    Babs, it’s the issue of who should be trusted between the two candidates, in relation to the promises they are making. A failed relationship does not go through the sacred vows of for better and for worse but marriage does. I agree though that it takes two to divorce but what has a cripple to offer to a celebrity? It takes dedicated love to stick together.

  • Bill Hedges

    b- If Ben Laden was caught he would hung. You can only hang the ones your with. U.N. inspectors was allowed and not allowed to search. Someimes they had to wait. Our under cover information was he had weapons. Just because they were not found does not mean they did not exist. If you want to ignore that, then human rights was a good reason. You want to ignore that, then terrorist which we have killed or captured in Iraq.

  • EricF

    the real story is that the Obama campaign and their many commmunity organizer teams disenfranchised the Hillary supporters through intimidation tactics. this is payback. Hillary knows she got a top spot waiting once McCain is elected. this election wont even be close.

    GAME OVER!

  • OBAMA08

    Look guys…this is retarded. Obama’s healthcare plan is way better than McCains. What are you going to do with $5000 for healthcare if you can’t use it because the insurance you applied to denied you because they say you have a pre-existing condition or your BMI is too high. Obama is going to take away that power from the insurance companies. He is going to allow you to get insurance and not get denied. McCain’s choice of Palin is already bad, so I wonder what other bad choices he could make as president.

  • b

    Bill-
    Terrorist are in Iraq because we invaded the country, they were not there before. Now you may be one that agree’s with the strategy that we should have invaded Iraq to draw them in there so we could kill them, but I fundamentally disagree with that concept, countries and there people are not chess peices. I firmly beleive that our leaders felt there were no weapons in Iraq, they have back tracked and justified that claim ever since which leads me to beleive that someone was not telling the truth. Like I said I would have been good with the humanitarian/oppresive dictator reason to take him out but the fact is that is not why they invaded, they only stumbled upon that reason after the WMD claims had been totally debunked by many epxerts, some even BUsh appointed.

    My point with Bin Laden is that if we waged a real war and not a CIA war in Afghanistan, if we put a 150,000 US troops there instead of Iraq, Bin Laden would be dead and al qaeda would have been forever crushed, sure as the sun will rise. Add to that Afghanistan and Pakistan would be much more stable countries today if we had done Afghanistan the right way.

  • b

    EricF do you have a crystal ball or something? Game Over huh (LOL), McCain still has a ways to go, I think and as every poll shows.

  • Bill Hedges

    Pats– I agee Bush should have vetoed many bad bills. Absolutely. He was a good President first 6 years….McCain will veto. He has a stubborn streak I like. He promises to veto Pork belley spending. And name anyone who adds that Pork. He will be first President ever to do that. He will be a one term President, no doubt about it. Even with super majority Democrat Congress, with McCain spilling the beans on T.V., he will be ablle to control all overs-pending…Obama does not have the record of following through and his Senate record certainly agrees with what I said of Obama.

  • Bill Hedges

    b- We got many big names in terrorism in Iraq. Whichever way they got there.

  • EricF

    b it is going to be a landslide trust me. Hillary supporters are not going to vote Obama. Obama screwed them over and now its payback time. Obama knows he is going to lose, you can see the desperation seeping out.

    GAME OVER!

    should i say it again?

    ok.

    GAME OVER! ahahahahaha!

    be mad, its ok.

  • b

    In my opinion Bush’s Presidency will be judge by history by the success or failure of Iraq. If in 30 years Iraq has a stable Govt that respects its very very very diverse population, if it is a stable, positive force in the region, and is an ally of the US, Bush will be remembered much like Truman is today, a strong, bold and courageous leader, if not then he will be judged harshly, all the other Bushism, and successes and failures of his Presidency will be long forgotten.

  • b

    I will not be mad if Obama loses EricF. I have faith in and trust John McCain should he beat the odds and win, I cannot say the same for Sarah Palin. You fight hard and try to get out the message and vote (which I have done volunteering for Obama), but in the end we all have to accept the will of our democracy, win, lose or draw. I am not one of those whiney Democrats that say if their guy loses they are moving to Canada.

    A landslide though? I doubt it, if McCain wins it will be very very close.

  • JD

    UPCOMING INTERVIEWS

    –OBAMA interview with NBC anchor Brian Williams will at on “Nightly News” at 6:30 pm ET.

    –OBAMA’s sit down with MSNBC will air on “The Rachel Maddow Show” at 9 pm ET.

    Plus: ABC News’ Charlie Gibson will interview MCCAIN in Ohio Friday. The interview with air on “World News” at 6:30 pm ET.

    More: ESPN says both candidates are planning to participate in interviews via satellite that would air at halftime of “Monday Night Football” the day before the election

  • JD

    Also, I have a question for Nate or anyone else that can answer…

    Are they conducting exit polling at early voting states? I would be curious to see some of those numbers if anyone knows…

  • EricF

    i think that video proves Obama supporters really are zombies. here is B.Clinton telling the crowd that their messiah is an empty suit with zero experience and they still clapped. too funny. Obama is a cult leader not a real leader.

  • Bill Hedges

    p–The war was foughr militarily and politicially. .Just as Korea and Viet Nam was. You can ait back and out-guess with your hind-sight 20-20 as I do. A President must take in all aspects. Including soilders loss of life.

  • Are they conducting exit polling at early voting states? I would be curious to see some of those numbers if anyone knows…

    They may be. Though I don’t believe the media would be releasing that information for fear they would persuade or dissuade voters from actually voting on Election Day.

    The group which does exit polling is put together by every major media company from Fox News to MSNBC, and everyone in between, they pooled to create an exit polling organization.

    So no media outlet has exit polls another doesn’t have, and they can control them all.

    So short answer, yes, they probably are doing exit polling, but we’ll never see it until election night, or so I understand it.

  • b

    Bill- I agree there are terrorists and nationalists that have been fighting against us in Iraq. I think a majority of the violence has not been commited by Al-Qaeda, I beleive that a majority of the violence was the result of the fact that we did not secure a single armory when we invaded (so Iraqi fighters were able to take control over a huge cache of weapons) and we dissolved, carte blanche, the Iraq military in our de-Bathification plan which was a total disaster. Those Sunni military folks turned against us when we kicked them out of the reconciliation process. The fact is that the way this war was waged was a total disaster. we should have had 500,000 troops, should have confiscated every weapon we found, we should have protected the museums and other cultural institution that were totally looted along with the oil feilds. This war has been a disaster and it is important to remember and study our failures there so that we never again wage a war so poorly.

  • EricF
  • Bill Hedges

    b- I to wish mistakes were not possible in war. I wish all married people stayed married and are happy. Unfortunely

  • EricF

    well i feel alot better now since Cavuto is just as confused as i am about Obamas tax plan and Rove is hitting on all the same points i have made.

  • Babs

    “I agree though that it takes two to divorce but what has a cripple to offer to a celebrity?”

    Pats, McCain wasn’t a celebrity when he came home, not in the sense that Obama is today. And a “cripple” has a lot to offer in this life – in their career and their private lives. I doubt the breakup of McCain’s marriage had anything whatsoever to do with her physical condition, anymore than it had to do with HIS physical condition after having been tortured and imprisoned for five years. But if it did, it was a very private affair between the two of them. We don’t belong in their bedroom, anymore than we belong in Obama’s.

  • Babs

    By the way, Pats, here’s a reference on the Bill Clinton quotes. I still don’t have a video to guide you to.

    http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/30/clinton-suggests-obama-uncertain-economic-crisis/

  • EricF

    ummm Babs…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR-FO7KIlKE

    starts around the 8 minute mark

  • Babs

    Thanks, EricF. Pats asked for it earlier, and I didn’t have it.

  • Independent Woman

    You are right Babs. The marriage break up is none of our business and completely irrelevant.

  • EricF

    did you see the look of contempt on Obamas face 🙂 ahahaha that is priceless. this guy thinks hes the only one that can play dirty politics? lmao

  • PeoplePower

    There have been far too many blindly-partisan comments here, especially from a select few McCain supporters. There’s little point in arguing with them, as they seem to be trolls or are acting like trolls at this point…

    That being said, a discussion has been going on about the Iraq War and what’s going on there. As such, I have some comments on that:

    There were many, many bungles made and several of them were related to how it started: Not enough troops to do the job completely.

    Still, as always, our soldiers went in and kicked the cr@p out of Iraq’s army. Rolled them over, as we did in Desert Storm. No big surprise there. Nor is it surprising that we had a lot of resistence from nationalists defending against a conquering power (despite our supposedly good intentions)…what would we do if China invaded the U.S. because they said Bush was a bad leader (brutal dictator or war criminal)? We would take up arms against the aggressor, despite their claims of “doing good for us.” To expect anything less is to have no clue about how people think and feel about *their* country.

    Sadly, we did not have enough troops to cover the critical-failure points: guarding arms depots, oil wells and the citizenry. We did not have a strong enough policy of disarmament – if someone points a gun at one of our soldiers, there were not allowed to immediately kill them. Horrible for our soldiers welfare and safety!

    We took actions that caused us disgrace and backsliding of our advancements there. They brought shame to our Nation and attracted jihadis into Iraq to fight against us – not only raising our casualties and that of innocents, but teaching the jihadis how to effectively engage in urban warfare. This will spell trouble for many countries in the Middle East as these lessons get taught to anti-government forces everywhere. Highly destabilizing and very likely to create more Theocracy-style governments.

    If Iraq ends up stabilizing it will be almost entirely because *they* collectively chose to do so. Our encouraging them to do so only goes so far.

    Conservatives love to argue that the Surge worked. The truth is that the surge was simply an escalation that added to the peace had when we decided to buy off a major thorn in our side – The Sunni Awakening was the beginning of a reduction in violence. This happened before the Surge.

    The Surge was supposed to bring about the completion of 13 (used to be around 18, but Iraq kept failing) requirements put upon them for “Political Progress.” It took at least a year before they achieved a few extra of the 13.

    I think, finally, that they have achieved most of the progress goals. As such, calling for the troops to come home is not only a good thing (they’re way over taxed) but a necessary thing. Our footprint needs to be smaller there…

    I pin all of these failures on the Commander-in-Chief, George W. Bush. Any positives achieved were achieved through the strength, grit and extraordinary commitment by our troops and our allies’ troops.

    A support of Bush’s policies and actions in Iraq is a support of his blunders there as well. Admittedly, McCain has brought up some of those blunders and been a critic of Bush because of them, but he didn’t go far enough in distancing himself from Bush in this regard…

    And all of this discussion continues to let Afghanistan escape notice, wherein Al Qaeda & the Taliban are regaining footholds; putting our troops at ever-higher risk every day we deliberate when to leave Iraq.

  • EricF

    you are right people power, McCain would not be a good commander in chief. Obama on the other hand with his lengthy community organizer experience and ties to terrorists is an excellent fit for the job.

    put down the crackpipe son.

    McCain is a hero

    Obama is… well… im sure he’s done something worth mentioning, just nobody can figure out what that is

    pfffffffffffffffffft!

  • PeoplePower

    Typical. You’ve been accusing a lot of people of crack smoking or whatever drug du jour you want to bring up.

    Is this a cry for help EricF?

    Clearly you need some. Your comments have generally been outlandish, bitter, angry, abusive and completely lacking in substance.

    If you could put down your Republican banner long enough to read what I said, you’d see I gave McCain credit for questioning Bush’s policies, largely, in Iraq.

    But, whatever, you do excellent work vying for the “troll of the year” award. You’ve got my vote.

    Surely, McCain would make a better Commander-in-Chief than Bush, but that’s a pretty low bar to exceed.

    McCain is a hero because he got shot down and was a POW? That’s not what heroes are made of. Heroes usually die. Heroes typically risk everything of their own to save others. He survived a POW camp, which is no small feat, but that’s not enough to be called a hero…

    There are many veterans who would disagree with how he (and the Republicans) is describing his time as a POW.

    http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_declassified_landing.htm

  • Bill Hedges

    People Power–Have you decided that Obama should release his health records as McCain did ?

  • b

    PeoplePower-
    I agree with a lot of your sentiments, except the surge. The fact is that the US and the Iraqi Govt. began and conducted a massive assassination and imprisionment campaign before and during the surge. Add to that the massive ethnic cleansing and population movements that took place in the time before and up to the surge, were you literally had millions of people on the move to safer ethinc and sectarian regions and scores of Iraqi being killed each month.

  • PeoplePower

    Bill – no. I am not responsible for what you consider sufficient medical records to be released.

    What records are you talking about? His medical history, as in from childhood to present?

    Or are you talking about his current medical condition?

    I guess I’ve been thinking about it from a perspective of his current medical condition, which is rather telling about his medical history.

    Any serious condition would still be present. Any non-serious condition is not worth considering – e.g. whether he had chicken pox as a kid is not something I consider important.

    I think this explains why I haven’t understood your demands for his records. I was thinking current condition vs. your thinking about his medical history (right?).

    Ahh…the confusion of language and its implicit meanings… 😉

  • b

    Hey EricF:
    McCain pals around with an unrepentent domestic terrorist and convicted felon, and McCain fundraiser G. Gordon Liddy, similar to Ayers but the other side of the coin.
    Not only that but fundamentally Liddy was involved in one of the most massive campaigns to subvert our democracy in our nations history, great guy, great guy.

  • swede

    EricF,
    “the Bible is open to interpretation, thats how GOD wanted it. ”

    (please pardon the lateness of the rebuttal)

    are you serious…? i thought you were a conservative. you honestly believe that the bible is whatever a person ‘interprets’ it to be? because that is what you just said.

    slave owners ‘interpreted’ the bible to justify their torture and enslavement of men, women, and children. (the slave is to honor his master)

    the KKK ‘interpreted’ the bible justify their white supremacy nonsense. (i personally cannot even to begin to attempt an explanation of this theologically – but they sure did)

    child abusers have ‘interpreted’ the bible to justify their acts (do not withhold the rod from a child)

    men who beat their wife’s ‘interpret’ the bible to justify their enslavement of their wives. (a man is to rule over his wife and his wife is to submit to her husband)

    bush ‘interpreted’ the bible as a reason to start a war (or used it to pull the strings of the conservative base to allow him to go to war – it being a moral imperative)

    look where your ‘friend’ rev. wright’s interpretation of the bible got him. (black liberation theology)

    you can (as some have) ‘interpreted’ the bible to promote socialism. (the bit in acts about the disciples selling all they had and giving to each man according to his need)

    please be careful when claiming to know ‘how god wants’ things. even the wisest of men is but a ‘clanging cymbal’ (foolish) in the eyes of god.

  • b

    Hey Swede watch it Jesus was the greatest communist ever. (LOL)

  • Bill Hedges

    PEOPLE POWER–McCain released 1100 pages of his medical records. All. You feel 1 page summary is enough. I see from your response your unhappiness with my trying to get you to answer. We decussed this on another tread. Obviously what is fair for McCain to give, you feel Obama does not have to provide. You have pulled a Bil Clinton . What ,,,is,,, is,,,.I gve up.

  • PeoplePower

    Well said swede!!

    Honestly, I think it is the height of arrogance for anyone to claim they *know* the mind of God…

    To parse out portions of the Bible to fit your own purposes is abuse of Religion, frequently used in order to abuse a position of power.

    “Judge not, lest ye be judged.”

  • b

    Bill are you really worried about Obama’s medical records? Every
    Presidential candidate has fought diclosing those records. Sarah
    Palin has released nothing by the way. I myself am more interested
    as to why Obama has chosen to have his college records sealed and
    why Michelle Obama has chosen to have her thesis at Princeton
    sealed until Nov. 5 (I think it has something to do with preschoool
    education of black children,… weird weird weird)

  • EricF

    its over!

  • b

    You know EricF I totally agree it is over. Much to my chagrin I
    know you cant wait to hail your new, great and heroic maverick
    leader, President Barack Obama…

  • swede

    wow. deep. “Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you
    will also be like him.” i guess that makes me a fool. sorry eric. i
    should have known better.

  • Bill Hedges

    b- I have always showed repect to PEOPLE POWER. He was upset with
    McCain not providing his recoreds. He said McCain only gave 5
    minutes, he thought, to look at 1100 pages. I pointed out many
    reporters was given 3 hours. He got, well you read his response..
    Obama Doctor gave a 1 page summary. I expected him to be fair. But
    I expected too much I guess from P/P. I agree in all you wrote in
    907 comments. I would add Obama’s sealed birth certificate. Why so
    much sealed records for Obama ?? And People wonder why his past is
    looked at ?

  • EricF

    b, its over. you dont get it do you? you will see. soon you will
    know the truth of Obama, soon everyone will know. you think its
    just a coincidence all this stuff is coming out now? keep watching
    the news.

  • bdjnk

    Obama’s Mythical Intelligence
    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/05/obama-mythical.html
    Read. Enjoy. Vote McCain.

  • U.S.A.

    Blah, Blah, Blah It is over. I hope Obama has all of his so called
    buddies over to the White House for a party. They could crash in
    the Lincoln bedroom! Who Cares Congratulations to President Barack
    Obama and Vice President Joe Biden ’08

  • EricF

    white house = federal prison? lol.

  • NiceKing

    EricF and his conservtards/reptards..you guys just crack me up. if obama wins all the rich will leave? where the hell did you get that shit from? and his tax plan is socialist?? dude if you guys were to get outa your cages and travel around the world for just 1week, i think y’all will learn something.
    we all know UK is not a socialist country right?? good. here in the UK businesses pay nothing less than 30% on tax whilst individuals/working class pay 17.5%. we have free health system, NHS. rich people are here, and constantly investing…so tell me, if the rich people leave, where are they going? definately not the UK, perhaps bangkok. very low tax rate…yet very poor economy. where in the world are they gonna go that will be highly beneficial because the US population is huge ok, unless they wanna go to china which we both know is a communist country…
    so yes they will have no option but to stay because they will still be better off so y’all should get ya heads outta your asses and start talking real sense in a real world…
    you cant stop the takeover…Obama wins by a land slide…by the way im moving back if obama wins…else fuck it! i wil come back for my pet dog i left behind…

  • PeoplePower

    Bill – we misunderstood each other – I was talking about their current medical condition and you were talking about their medical history. Two very different things…

    EricF – though you don’t really deserve a response for your childish troll-like behavior, “all this stuff” is coming out now because McCain is *desparate* to pin anything on Obama he can. He’s losing, so he has sunk to the vile Rovian/Atwater tactics and attacking character.

    Hillary Clinton ran a brutal campaign against Obama. If any of these things truly had traction, she would have brought them out and they would have stuck back then. Since none of them did and it’s all coming out in the last desparate gasps of McCain’s losing campaign, they are simply exaggerations used to smear Obama.

    Oh, and if McCain wins (particularly in a landslide), I’d suggest the double-check the hanging chads and the vote-flipping Diebold machines.

    It’s certainly not over yet, but it is a huge uphill climb for McCain; though you can continue to delusionally claim that he’ll definitely win all you want…I’d just recommend a stronger dose of anti-psychotics.

  • Pats

    NiceKing, thank you very much for your contribution in this so call rich people will leave debate. This issue has been pounded over and over again with no destination where those rich people will go. They made it sound as if taxes are the only factors for business location. May be you will be successful in making this argument rest in peace.

  • Bill Hedges

    PEOPLE POWER–All alone we were talking about 1100 pages of McCain history. Go back to the orginal thread and you will see. You will not say how unfair that McCain provides all, 1100, medical records. While Obama supplies a one page summary. If you feel this is fair. Simple say so.

  • EricF

    some of you people must be learning disabled or just have no clue about America. America already has one of the most progressive tax systems… IN THE WORLD. the “rich” already pay way more than their share. the bottom half pay very little to no federal income taxes. in fact a good portion already get a refund. under Obama the “rich” will pay around 40% add in all the other new taxes and it jumps to closer to 50% and thats not counting state or local.

    now do you understand why his plan would kill business? holy crap its not that difficult to understand.

  • NiceKing

    hahaha EricF thats garbage. the you watch obama’s interview with Oreily?? he said not more than 30%. in fact they both agreed on 26% so maybe you are the one learning disabled. the fact that he’s on some redistribution doesnt mean he wants all their money in a greedy fashion way. hes a sensible and well educated man.

    oh and yes McCain finished at the bottom of his class, and got referred to the army by his dad (a us admiral). all his life everything has been on a plate…obama has struggled ok? too bad street cred doesnt count.

    Bill – “ou will not say how unfair that McCain provides all, 1100, medical records. While Obama supplies a one page summary.” listen McAttck is like 100years ok? aand with his conditions it means that he needs regular GP visits. plus in the naval you get checked very frequent also.so simply say 1 page for every year in McAttak’s life..obviously that will be a lot of pages… Obama is very young, and no pre-existing or eestablished condition. so instead of being prescribed 2 pages of medication, they simply right “excellent condition” and he leaves…

    Pats – thanks or your acknowledgement…these guys dont know what they are on about… obama is trying to keep the american dream and to be able to change it into reality whilst the reptards just want the american people to keep on dreaming. dreaming how rich you can get. fantasize about these rich dudes. the people that work most and hard are the people that benefits the least whilst the one that do nothing but sign the pay check benefits 90% of the interest. so its only common sense to say hey, you take 70% and lets give 30% to the needy. is that socialism??

  • EricF

    NiceKing i think you may have some type of brain injury. the tax on these people is already 35% so if Obama increases the rate how can it possibly get lower? thats only the federal income tax, thats not including all of Obamas other tax inccreses and it doesnt include state or local.

    pls tell me, and this is to anyone, how much, what percent do you think the “rich” should pay?

  • Bill Hedges

    Nice king- How do you know Obama has no illness, with you living in England. John Kennedy was a very sick person.

  • PeoplePower

    EricF – the Wealthiest 5% of the country control some 50% of the nation’s wealth, but they pay about 30% of the nation’s taxes.

    SO, when you talk about the rich “paying more than their share” your math doesn’t add up.

    The top tax bracket, prior to Reagan, was 70%. The wealthy were doing just fine before Reagan. What was different? The Middle Class was also doing well.

    By lowering the top tax rate, the Middle Class began to pay much, much more of the burden, to the point now where their 50% of the wealth is taxed to paying 70% of the entire tax burden.

    Do you know what was also doing well prior to Reagan’s tax cut? The Detroit Big 3 Auto Makers. Although, they did suffer a blow in the ’73 oil embargo. Back then, very few people would buy any car not made in America; though Volkswagons were doing okay, as were the premium vehicles (Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, etc.). Toyota’s nickname back then was “Toilet”. They were awful cars, with their only appeal being that they were cheap and got good gas mileage.

    Reagan and the conservative power-brokers worked hard to dismantle unions and the Middle Class and those policies have been pushed and pushed ever since. Clinton even did some harm to the Middle Class, though not nearly as severe as Reagan or GW Bush.

    The growth is exponential – there used to just be the top 5% who were Wealthy. Now the rich are being out-paced by the super-rich such that we now talk about the top 5% and the top 1%. Meanwhile, Middle Class is diminishing and being beat over the head waiting for this wealth to trickle down.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/business/31view.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

    I don’t have time to put together the chart myself, using research from the U.S. Census Bureau and Larry Bartels – so check out the chart on the left-hand side as you scroll down a bit.

    Your logic and all of your arguments are blind talking points and have no basis in actual fact. Facts are unbiased.

    A rising tide raises all boats.

  • Bill Hedges

    PEOPLE POWER= YOU MISSED A POINT THEY DO NOT EARN ALL THEIR MONEY EACH YEAR. tAXES IS ON EARNED MONEY FOR THAT YEAR. Wealth is no taxed.

  • Bill Hedges

    Say I am worth $50 million for years. No tax. I make 250,000. I will be taxed on $250,000 on my income tax.

  • Babs

    PP,

    “Do you know what was also doing well prior to Reagan’s tax cut? The Detroit Big 3 Auto Makers.”

    I think you’ll have to admit that this time period saw a much different picture in just the total number of models out there. Remember when the “Big 3” was really all there was to choose from? The competition in the auto market today is unreal, and in some ways, they just haven’t kept up.

  • Antonio

    EricF:
    “pls tell me, and this is to anyone, how much, what percent do you think the “rich” should pay?”

    I’d say… mhhh… 70%? 😉

    Somewhere in the Bible says that God said:

    “For I tell you it is easier that a camel passes through a needle whole than a rich enters God’s kingdom”

    Sorry if I change the words, I do not know the quote in English and I have no Bible in English either.

  • Bill Hedges

    Ant-Don’t quote Bible when taking taxes. Ask your preacher and he can exlain why. Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar..just a hint

  • Bill Hedges

    Ant– eye of neddle has to do with going to heaven, not taxes

  • Antonio

    BH,

    OK 😉
    You score at my own game.

  • Bill Hedges

    Ant– I think Bible would say ,,giving should come from the heart…Not required taxes

  • Antonio

    BH:
    Never mind my comment; I was just teasing EricF who seems so uncentered…

    But speaking seriously. I have been reading many posts and I am appalled to see (and I may be not the only foreigner) that choosing president in the 1st world super power (political, economical, military) boils down to answering “under who’s government will I pay less taxes?”

    I (want to) understand your concerns. Taxes and taxes’ affairs are important for many reasons. Starting with, nobody likes to pay them. Not even me who have a tendency for socialism although I do not vote for two good reasons: I am a foreigner in France and anyway I do not believe in politicians’ promises (left or right, with some notable exceptions, they seem all the same to me: putting their carriers upfront). But I am drifting away.

    Really, how come taxes is (at least seems to be) the number one issue at stake?! Surely there are exceptions: e.g. someone was briefly mentioning Palin’s energy plan (you?)… but in all pages I have seen the discussion inevitably coming back to the taxes issue.

    So, back to the fact that the US is the most influential (to say the least) country in the world, sorry American folks if some foreigners come to post our opinions here. These elections are important for us too except that we do not have the right to chose, only to opinate. Furthermore, since we do not pay taxes in the US (maybe we pay proportionally more, though) we do not see the big deal in this.

  • Bill Hedges

    Ant –Speak all you want. What I am against is ,,,spread the wealth,,,, Not an American idea. My tax money is for government needs. Not for government to give to poorer people class. America has programs to help needy. And I give to my choicen charity, no help needed from government. Thank-you.

  • Antonio

    BH- I did not mean to upset you. Sorry

  • Bill Hedges

    Ant– no no no no. I am not upset. what made you think that. I’sm sorry

  • Independent Woman

    Antonio, out of curiosity- where are you from?

  • Bill Hedges

    Ind. Woman- Put your pointer on flag. It will tell you..France

  • Independent Woman

    He said, I am a foreigner in France. Thought maybe not a French national but living an working in France.

  • Antonio

    BH, IW,

    As I said, I do not vote because I am a foreigner
    in France. I am Mexican but I live abroad (from
    Mexico) since 1992; living and working in France
    since 1999, indeed.

  • Bill Hedges

    Ant–Will you go back to Mexico or do you like Europe

  • Antonio

    BH-
    Interesting you ask that.

    I was called names because I posted that it was good to live in a socialist country but since you ask, I’ll tell that I chose France because of that, in part. Also because of the reputation of its educational system (another social benefit), culture, and many other reasons. On professional grounds, I would be much better paid, even in Mexico, but I prefer to be here. I have a great (life-time secured) –underpayed– job with absolute freedom of doing whatever pleases me.

    Mexico has much more deregulated policies in many ways. I also lived in the US but it’s definitely not for me. It is a land of opportunity, alright, but wide opportunities come with high risks, as financial markets. So yes, I am settled here even if I will always remain Mexican.

  • Bill Hedges

    Ant– Are you in Paris ?

  • Bill Hedges

    Ant- Sorry they gave you hard time. We have maybe 5 dumB-dumbs on this site. Most people are O.K.

  • Bill Hedges

    ANT–I must go. Enjoyed talking to you.

  • Antonio

    BH-

    Sorry I had left to bed already.
    Yes, nice talking to you too. I live in southern
    outskirts of Paris and, in case you might ask, I’m
    a researcher in engineering/applied math.

    Bon courage for the next 4 years; whoever wins.

  • Bill Hedges

    My brother in law teeaches Industrial engineering PH level, at Teaxas A&M..Aggie Land,,,,Texas of course… Paris, so much history