Obama’s Born Identity (Update)

We have all had to provide a birth certificate at some time or another. Perhaps in order to get a driver’s license or passport. Most people have a copy in their bank safe deposit box or sitting in drawer at home and we can produce it on short notice. You would think the same would apply to someone running for the most important job in the world. That is not the case with Barrack Obama and many people want to know why.

I’m fully aware that Obama has posted his certification of live birth on his website. You can see it here:

Furthermore, I am aware that factcheck.org has looked at the certification of live birth and vouched for its authenticity.

There are a couple of problems here. First of all, the “certification of live birth” that factcheck.org is vouching for is not the official document issued at the time of birth. Here is what a typical birth certificate would look like around the time Obama was born. Notice how much additional information it provides:

The second issue is that factcheck.org is hardly a reliable source given the fact that it is run by the Annenberg Center for Public Policy, whose board Obama sat on. That is more than a small conflict of interest.

Philip Berg, an attorney from Pennsylvania has brought a lawsuit against Obama to force him to produce his original birth certificate. Here is a widely seen interview given by Berg about his claims:

Berg’s lawsuit was recently dismissed by U.S. District Judge R. Barclay Surrick reasoning that Berg did not have standing to request the birth certificate. As a result, Berg is going to appeal the case to the US Supreme Court. This issue is not going away as the Senator would like. Six additional lawsuits have been filed in other states seeking the release of his original birth certificate. Fueling some of the internet rumors is that Berg claims to have recordings of Obama’s grandmother claiming that she witnessed her grandson’s birth in Kenya. Berg has theorized that Obama’s mother was in Kenya and was too pregnant to fly back to Hawaii so she gave birth in Kenya. He further surmises that after the birth the Obama’s quickly returned to Hawaii to have the birth registered. This might explain why Obama’s sister has mentioned two different hospitals when answering questions about her brother’s place of birth. Berg has additional theories that Obama was adopted by his step-father and became an Indonesian citizen. He then returned to the United States becoming a naturalized citizen making him ineligible to be POTUS. What the actual truth is, we may never know.

Even if Obama is elected on Nov. 4th, he’s still going to have to deal with this. I suspect that eventually, if this makes it to the Supreme Court, they will require Obama to finally produce his birth certificate. If there are any irregularities or doubts about his citizenship, it will cause a constitutional crisis like we’ve never seen before. I’m sure many will call me a right wing conspiracy theorist, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. There are many theories that have been running rampant on the web, but I chose not to give any of them legitimacy without proof. I am giving Obama the benefit of the doubt. He can do us all a favor and produce this document in order to put the issue to rest. What does he have to lose, unless he’s hiding something? As always, I leave you with a quote:

Truth is generally the best vindication against slander. -Abraham Lincoln


Soon after posting this article more information surfaced, from a source wishing to remain anonymous, which adds further doubt to the “official” certificate of live birth posted on Obama’s fightthesmears.com website.

Compare an original 1961 certificate with Obama’s 2007 reproduction:

The certificate on the left is purported to be an official certificate of live birth from 1961 in the state of Hawaii, the island of Oahu, in the county of Honolulu. The same specifications for the area and time frame when Obama was born.

If Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961, as he claims, then he should be able to produce a birth certificate looking at least similar, if not identical to the one on the left.

See a larger comparison here to examine the details of each:

Large Birth Certificate Comparison

Nate was kind enough to host these large files on the youdecide2008.com server to keep the source anonymous.

Yet more questions arise as these official versions come out disputing Obama’s “official” certificate he has provided to the public. Why can’t Obama produce the original and put all these rumors to bed? Why let the questions linger if they aren’t true?

Stalin is a regular contributor for YouDecide2008.com

  • smrstrauss

    Re FactCheck being hardly a reliable source. If you go to their site, you will find that they hit Obama strongly and frequently for having said false things about McCain. This indicates some objectivity.

    Moreover, saying that a document is true when it is fake is not something that political leanings influence. If you know a document to be false and you say it is true, you are lying and you may be committing a fraud yourself.

    And there is the fact that the Obama document has been on line for months, and the officials in the Hawaii government have never said anything about it being either clearly false or even “maybe false.” Of course, it is hard for them to be certain because all they see is the electronic copy of the document, but what they have seen is okay.

    Also, FactCheck is not alone. There is also Politifact, which also found the document to be valid.

    Re the grandmother allegation. There is no evidence for this. It has been reported that the lawyer who brought the original suit has an audio tape of the grandmother saying that she saw Obama’s birth, but he has never played this tape to anyone, and even if there really is a tape, how can you tell that the person recorded is really the grandmother.

    But, if it WERE the grandmother, then you would have the testimony of the grandmother versus the document of the state of Hawaii, and frankly the document seems to be better evidence. So there should be substantiating evidence for the alleged grandmother. Is there a Kenyan birth certificate? No. Is there a report in a Kenyan newspaper or a notice in a Kenyan newspaper? No. Is there a recent Kenyan newspaper article that investigated Obama’s birthplace and found that it was in Kenya? No. Is there a record of Obama’s mother having gone to Kenya? No.

    So there is good evidence that he was born in Hawaii and absolutely NO evidence that he was born in Kenya.

  • It is sad that some anti-Obama folks resort to this weak stuff as a final hail mary in the last throes of the election.

  • Excellent points Stalin, as usual.

    The “official” certificate produced by the campaign does appear to be lacking TONS of information. Then again, I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that Obama’s birth certificate looks different than everyone else’s who was born in the early 1960s in Hawaii.

    One more massive issue to add to the list of things Obama supporters would rather ignore and sweep under the rug. File this one next to Bill Ayers, Rev. Wright, Obama’s socialist ties, Raila Odinga, Saul Alinksy, ACORN, and a slew of others.

    Obama’s sister has given conflicting reports of where Obama was born. Then again, Obama supporters will be telling me that doesn’t matter either. Obama’s grandmother also stated that she’s proud of her son being born in Kenya since she was in the delivery room.

    The Israeli news reported on that:


    Someone is lying. According to Obama’s Kenyan (paternal) grandmother, as well as his half-brother and half-sister, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya, not in Hawaii as the Democratic candidate for president claims. His grandmother bragged that her grandson is about to be President of the United States and is so proud because she was present DURING HIS BIRTH IN KENYA, in the delivery room. -This, according to several news sites and Pennsylvania attorney Philip J. Berg (see video below) who is, surprisingly, a life long democrat himself. Berg is the former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania, and he has an impressive background in his activities as a democrat, but his support for the party seemingly stops when it comes to his trust in Barack Hussein Obama.

    There is also a discrepancy in what hospital Barack Hussein Obama was born in, even if he was born in Hawaii. Reports by his own sister in two separate interviews state that he was born at two different hospitals– Kapiolani Hospital and Queens Hospital–in Honolulu.

    The Times Herald even reports: “the senator’s grandmother, brother and sister, who live in Kenya, believe they were present during Obama’s birth in the African country.” Here, the Times Herald uses the word that his family ‘believe’ he was born in Kenya (perhaps to avoid possible law suits by Obama’s Truth Squad?).

    Cue the Obama supporters coming in to tell us how little this matters. Of course, enough of them have complained that McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone but we have to remember that double standards are acceptable as long as it’s only Republicans being questioned and criticized.

    If this was McCain, our liberal commentators would have had a dozen commentaries written on the subject already questioning McCain’s qualifications under the constitution. Luckily we have some balance here.

    The typical operating procedure seems to be the immediate discrediting of anyone who questions Obama. Careful Stalin, you better monitor your garbage cans since you’ll have Obama cronies digging through them trying to prove you were late paying your cable bill, thus your questioning of Obama is disqualified.

  • smrstrauss

    Re: Someone is lying. According to Obama’s Kenyan (paternal) grandmother, as well as his half-brother and half-sister, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya.

    Yes! Philip Berg claims that he has this information on an audio tape. But he has never played the tape to anyone. Moreover, it is an audio tape. So how do we know, or how for that matter does even Philip Berg know, that the person recorded was his grandmother, as well as his half brother and half sister.

    There is no documentary evidence from Kenya such as a birth certificate, or records that Obama’s mother was even in Kenya.

    It would have been one heck of a long and expensive trip from Hawaii to Kenya in 1961.

  • sgtnik

    But the fact of the matter is that there should be some level of proof of eligibility to hold the highest office in the land. As it stands, he has blocked access to records from his college days at Columbia, his college days at Harvard, and his original birth certificate. All things that are easily obtainable. To get a secret clearance in the Navy, which is nothing compared to what he will have access to, I had a full and complete background check done by the NIS and FBI. This doesn’t even come close to passing the smell test. As a US citizen, I demand to know if he is truly qualified or not!

  • Go Hung, its Over. Petty politics like what you would want us to believe have no place in this land. Who makes you more American than any other person???
    Get better reasons to be anti Obama. This is pure shenanigan!

  • Well we know how true those Israel Newspapers are


    Lets not forget about who created that out of thin air with no evidence and people were dancing jigs in front of the computers.

    Lets rewrite this.

    Cue the McCain supporters coming in to tell us how little this matters. Of course, enough of them have complained that Obama was born in the Kenya but we have to remember that double standards are acceptable as long as it’s only Democrats being questioned and criticized.

    C.G. basically everything you wrote also applies to the Republicans. The lower level of supporters do the SAME THING on both sides. It is not one side or the other. The things we should criticize are the things which rise to the level of Fox New, MSNBC or other main stream news outlets. THAT is when there is a legit criticism. I’ve never seen Msnbc spend a considerable amount of time on McCain’s birth certificate. Because they know it’s stupid.

    “If this was McCain, our liberal commentators would have had a dozen commentaries written on the subject already questioning McCain’s qualifications under the constitution. Luckily we have some balance here.”

    There are plenty of things about Mccain that the liberal commentators are not going crazy over. McCain’s birth certificate being one of them. Because again it is stupid. Listen to talk radio and you will hear about this birth certificate at least once a day. On fox they every now and then allow one of the conspiracy theorist voice their opinion about Obama’s birth certificate. There are Low level goof ball left wing loons who have written commentaries on McCain’s birth certificate.

    “The typical operating procedure seems to be the immediate discrediting of anyone who questions Obama.”

    Again the same thing is done with McCain as well. We have some fine examples of that right here on this site. Now there is a difference between discrediting something that is actual a HOAX or a farce and actually trying to discredit something that is true. I know the partisan hacks would like people to think that everything falls under the “it’s all true but they are trying to spin it” category but that’s just part of the propaganda machine. Any reasonable person knows that a lot of stuff is fake and if you ignore it then it becomes true. I can point out some interesting McCain bull crap i’ve come across online and in the media.
    Maybe when they pulled that crap about him having an affair with that lobbyist no one should have attempted to discredit it. Or the attempt to discredit it should be labeled as

    “The typical operating procedure seems to be the immediate discrediting of anyone who questions McCain.”

    Come on now.

  • Babs

    “If this was McCain, our liberal commentators would have had a dozen commentaries written on the subject already questioning McCain’s qualifications under the constitution. Luckily we have some balance here.”

    Don’t forget, CG, McCain was accused of not being an american citizen and it had to go all the up to shut the liberals up on this. I think the original accusation came from the Obama camp, and as we’ve heard all our lives “The guilty dog always barks first.”

    My daughter-in-law was born in Hawaii. She tells me her birth certificate looks nothing like this, and contains much more information. If Obama was interested in giving the voters the truth, he could obtain hospital records in Hawaii to substantiate his birth there. I don’t understand why Berg is not asking for THOSE records. Those would be definitive.

  • Stalin

    Some interesting comments, but nobody has answered this question and it’s the most important one:

    “He can do us all a favor and produce this document in order to put the issue to rest. What does he have to lose, unless he’s hiding something?”

  • Seems to me Mr. Berg’s word that he has a tape of Obama’s grandmother is more believable than anything Obama has said to date since there is news paper articles stating what his grandmother and sister has said. If he is so innocent of everything the Republicans have said, why doesn’t he prove them wrong, why, why, why? That would be the smart thing to do but we all know Obama is NOT real smart. I wish the American people would be smart at this point and make him prove himself by producing papers of college, original birth cert. and anything else he has to prove he is who he tells us he is and what he tries to get us all to believe he is. I personally believe he hates America. My discernment of the spirit’s when I hear and see him talk.

  • Nate_K

    “He can do us all a favor and produce this document in order to put the issue to rest. What does he have to lose, unless he’s hiding something?”

    Well, STalin, I think your name goes a long way in answering this question. This isn’t Communist Russia. “…Unless you have something to hide” isn’t justification for violating someone’s right to privacy.

    Hey Stalin, I accuse you of credit card fraud. I have to investigate. Give me your credit card number, expiration date, security code, social security number, and billing address. That is…Unless you have something to hide…No reply will assume your guilt.

  • Stalin


    Great argument. You are dancing aroung the issue because you have no defense. In case you didn’t notice, I’m not running for POTUS, Obama is. When you run for president, you are waiving many of your rights to privacy, especially when you have to meet constitutional requirements.

  • Babs

    Nate_K, you sound like Obama. *LOL*

    Stalin, that’s the question that is bothering me as well. And again, live births are recorded at hospitals. That could lay it all to rest. Obama is stonewalling, and you have to ask why.

  • Hold On

    This is insane. Hold on here! What is going on? Is this guy or isn’t he born here in the US. This is major deal.

    Even bigger than his redistribution of wealth stuff.

  • Mitch

    RE: isn’t justification for violating someone’s right to privacy.

    RIGHT TO PRIVACY?!?!?! Holy crap. The man wants to be President of the United States.

    I quote Article 2 of the US Consitiuton:

    “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President.”

    It is NOT a privacy issue. It is a legal requirement to be President. Simple… if Barack is a NATURAL US Citizen then he MUST provide the proof. It is the LAW!!!!!

  • Brian H

    I believe this could be easily decided in court except for the stonewalling. What bothers me, however, is Senator Obama’s willingness to waste taxpayer dollars by tieing up the court system through nonresponse and the DNC going along with it. A similar lawsuit was put forth for McCain because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone to military parents on a military base. McCain quickly provided a copy of his birth certificate. That is certainly much harder for Senator McCain since he is older and the birth was out of the country on a military base. Hawaii was part of the US when Senator Obama was born. It should be easy to get. The courts examined McCain’s birth certificate and the laws at the time relating to citizenship and ruled that he was a citizen. Instead Obama is not answering with a copy of his birth certificate. In my mind, I would let the courts sort the question out, because I do not know all the nuances of the law. I do find this another example of not being fiscally responsible to the citizens of the US and another reason to disagree with his fiscal policies since he will ignore what is not self-serving. Just unseal the birth certificate in Hawaii and let reporters get it. Charge them $100 for a copy. Let the money made on it go to a charity of Mr. Obama’s choice. That will stop some of these lawsuits.

    I really wish Senator McCain or Governor Pail would ask about these lawsuits concerning fiscal responsibilty in the next few days. I really would like to see the answer from the Obama campaign as to not being open to the courts. I am sure the response that a former Asst Attorney General and a leading democrat in Pa not having standing to verify that the Senator is a citizen would not go over well nor would the DNC trying to dismiss the case, or the Federal Election Commission not having jurisdiction to vet a presidential candidate. I have one final question then, if a citizen of the US and our election commisions do not have authority or standing to ask that a candidate is a citizen, then who does?

  • verbum

    How are INS/TSA angle? To investigate this based on his ideologies and visits/stays with his mom in Pakistan.
    Barry Soetero his alias thereby lied to Illinois Bar.

    OBAMA as Kenyan born

    In 1981, his mother came back to Hawaii and filed a divorce. From State of Hawaii Court :
    and enter case ID#—>1DV00-0-117619
    Officially, Barry’s mother Ann Dunham Soetero never had use Obama as her last name. That would had made her a bigamous partner of Obama Sr.

  • Stalin

    For those of you that have questioned the existence of Berg’s audiotapes, here is his statement:

    “The tape is in the native language there,” Berg said. “I will release it as soon as translation is confirmed by affidavit, and we are waiting on affidavits from contacts over here and in Kenya.””

  • Bill Hedges

    Stalin–I assume Sercret service is checking this.??

  • Birth Certificates– consider me a bit slow, but they can be reissued, can’t they? The document posted online has a very faint date — you can read backwards, that says 2007 on it. If I lost my birth certificate, I could get another one, and I doubt it would look like ones dated in the 1970s….

  • Stalin


    You are correct, Obama’s Certification of Live Birth is from 2007. This is not his official birth certificate that was issued at the hospital. I am not purporting that this is a forgery as the text in the image suggests.

  • Bill Hedges

    It could be copy from health department

  • marzzbar

    Apparently all the details are on the back of the certificate he posted.
    I dunno…just sayin…

  • Bill Hedges

    Don’t get me wrong, I want McCain to be President. I assume secret service or F.B.I. would invesigate this. And if true, disqualify Obama. Have you checked with them..

  • Babs

    Michael, yes, you can get a 2007 affadavit, but the original is on Microfish (sp), and should be pulled.

    I still say the hospital records of the live birth is more valid, and easily obtained by Obama.

    So why isn’t he willing to do that?

  • I fear there is just as much speculation over John McCain’s U.S citizenry as Obama’s. At this point in the game, I am willing to put some moderate faith in our government that any viable candidate’s records would have been adequately researched and verified, before allowing them to become official contenders for the office of the U.S Presidency.

  • Bill Hedges

    John McCain could have been born in China. If his father was on active duty in the armed forces with his family.

  • Harriett

    Every question that anyone has regarding a man that no one knew,prior to this election is considered stupid. I am assuming that their are a lot of people in this country that apparently forgot what happened on 9/11.

    We allowed muslims into this country that were smart enough to get the control of our planes and killed many innocent americans and for what? Because they were taught according to the koran. A book that plainly states by killing off a non-believer of the muslim faith you are guaranteed a place in heaven. We have a man that has been taught from this same book asking us to elect him as the president of our country. We are not supposed to be concerned that this might actually be a way for them gain the United States?

    You obviously feel obama will be whats best for our country. My opinion is of little concern to you because your mind has been made up on this issue. Let us all pray that you know this man really well and that you are correct, otherwise you all just voted for this countries demise?

  • Bill Hedges

    Harriott—Lets say there is no religious problem with Obama. Obaba voted to increase taxes on $42,000. He averaged $1 million a day PORK. Now imagine him President, the Lady Speaker of House, and Reid with major majority in both houses. Our national debt is nothing now, compared to what it would be under those circumstances…….

  • Stalin


    This is the same government that crashed our economy. I wouldn’t put any faith in them. There has to be a reason that he won’t release the original. There is something on that document that he feels would be detrimental to his candidacy. Unless, he’s just doing this out of spite…either way he’s wrong.

  • VoteForMcCain

    John McCain, who ran for the Republican party nomination in 2000 and is the Republican nominee in 2008, was born at the Coco Solo U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents. Although the Panama Canal Zone was not considered to be part of the United States, federal law states: “Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.” The law that conferred this status took effect on August 4, 1937, one year after John McCain was born — albeit with retroactive effect, resulting in McCain being declared a U.S. citizen.

    If Obama was born in Kenya, he would have had to be naturalized in the U.S. His mother could have had him registered at the U.S. Embassy also. There just isn’t any evidence of this. Natural born and Naturalized are completely separate things I’m afraid. Sad, but it looks as if the question of his birth will change the course of history. This has been a very interesting and disturbing election.

    When I wrote to my Secretary of State, I was told that the rule for Natural Born doesn’t matter until the man is elected. Before November 4, it is up to the individual’s party to nominate a vetted candidate with all of those questions answered. After November 4, if Obama is elected, voters may question his status as a U.S. citizen. Don’t know if I was just given a brush off by my Democrat-controlled state, but it looks as if a class-action investigation is needed to get to the bottom of this. What’s right is right and what’s wrong is wrong. If he doesn’t have the right, he should have backed down and let Hillary run for president. Pure selfishness on his part to not come clean on this and/or to deceive and cost Hillary the Presidency.

  • Harriett

    I am not feeling that this man is what is best for this country. We all have questions that as of yet have not been answered. We all have our reasons for voting the way that we do however, I am very concerned with the way this man is being treated.

    I visited the National Library of Congress a few months ago and saw where obama put a bill to congress in 2006 to have ALL voters require no ID, this bill was also endorsed by Hillary Clinton. After the ACORN issue I visited the site again, guess what folks its no longer there. A bit strange in my opinion.

    He also endorses partial abortion, does anyone have any idea what this involves? I did not until yesterday, thought it was just an abortion done on an older fetus. The baby is actually pulled out from the mother and any parts that are in the way are cut off, the goal is to reach the head and literally suck out the brains of the baby while in the birth canal. I was furious prior to finding this out because he also put through to congress a bill stating if you lived in a state that did not allow abortions,you had the right to visit another state and parents did not need to be notified. I have the right to know if my daughter is having any operation that may endanger her life and do not feel that the government should be able to make that choice for me.

    And health care handled by our government, what a joke. Look at our senior citizens and what they are putting up with under the governments health system. I could go on and on, but the BOTTOM line is this we do not know enough about this man to put him into office.

    Why has our media been so one sided about the issues of this man, and since when does any presidential candidate have the right to cut ties with the media, if they do not like the questions that are asked? What will it be like in the White House? This man has someting he is hiding.

  • Babs

    Apparently, many are following your thinking, Harriett. I understand Rasmussen is releasing a new poll this morning that will say that the majority of people polled now trust McCain more with the economy than they do Obama.

    I agree with you. That’s why I voted for McCain. I hope you do, too.

  • WaitHoldOn

    Is Obama not a Manchurian Candidate? I still don’t understand who this guy is. He has no Birth Certificate, at least not one he is willing to share with us. He won’t release any of his records from his educational experience, the most substantive experience he has, and his whole thing last night was like a “get comfortable with me in the white house” propaganda piece.

    It’s like he has become a part of the American so called “branded” lexicon whereby it’s not the product that matters but the marketing and the advertising.

    Who is this guy? Where is he from? He’s lived under three different names, he has not history- where are all of his Harvard, Columbia friends? Who knows this guy? The only people we know of are now Wright, Ayres and now Khaliki(?) and a guy named Rezko who we worked for in Chicago who got him started in politics who has connections to Syria and Iraqi terrorists and is a convicted federal prisoner.

    What is going on in this country?

  • Mike

    There once was a cat called Obama
    Who learned marxism from Momma;
    He worshiped with Wright
    Who hated folks white,
    And hung out with Ayers, an Osama.

    Obama had a bad rep but shed it,
    Quit doing drugs, yeah he said it;
    Now he’s in great health
    And eyeing your wealth
    And you know he just can’t wait to spread it.

    Obama claimed three different places
    To be born, although there’s no traces.
    Three different locations
    He claimed on occasions,
    But he’s yet to produce, despite chases.

    His granny says he’s born in Kenya;
    If you buy that, racism’s in ya!
    He’s above all reproach
    With Ayers as a coach
    And media servants to tend ya!

    He sat in hard racist pews
    While Wright spewed hard racist views.
    For twenty long years
    He plugged up his ears
    And doesn’t hate whitey and Jews.

    He hung out with an old bomber,
    Says he didn’t know him when younger;
    Broke bread with Khalidi
    And his jihadi sweetie;
    For terrorist chums he’s a tonguer.

    His wife was not proud of her nation
    Until her man’s nomination.
    Now her racist taboo
    She hides on the View
    And soaks up the cheap adoration.

    Barack says that he’ll heal the planet,
    His jaw set firmly like granite.
    His orations are swell
    But his act’s a hard-sell
    And has been since he began it.

  • Bertie

    I am confused why anyone would not want this issue settled. Let us require both McCain and Obama to produce valid Birth Certificates.
    It can’t be about individual supporters being right. It has to be about what is legal, what upholds the constitution!
    Can we not put our country first, above the petty squabbles?

  • Harriett

    Babs, I most certainly did vote for McCain, at least with him I do feel that our country would be safe.

  • Bill Hedges

    Bertie—We have a lot of soilders over seas with their wivies. Some are bound to have babies. Would you expect these babies not to be born American citizens. Of course McCain was born U.S. ciitizen. His father was on active duty with our armed services….

  • Hawk

    Found this elsewhere and it is ACCURATE:

    “Notice how his father’s race is listed as AFRICAN. In 1961, his father’s Race would have been listed as NEGRO. In 1961, his father’s Race, in all U.S. Agencies, and in all Birth Certificates, would NOT have been listed as Black nor African, it would have been listed as NEGRO ONLY. Based on these two facts, this is a false birth certificate.”

  • Carrie

    “It’s not too late to make the right decision ‘My Friends’. I am So Sick of McCain and Palins lies!
    Why do they both keep telling these lies about what Obama and Biden have said at their rallies? Do they think we don’t watch or listen to what Obama and Biden are saying? Do they think that we haven’t checked out their plans on their web sites? Do they think we haven’t been to the tax comparison site that calculates and compares the differences between the Obama and McCain tax plans? It is a shame that McCain and Palin keep spewing these lies. Don’t they realize that everyone knows that if they are lying now, that we don’t realize that they will lie to us even more if they are elected? The GOP ticket is way too risky, lies, are the main reasons I have decided to vote Democratic. When reading back on 50-75 previous years, presidents and financial troubles, it is a pattern that the GOP looks after the big corporations and the rich by finding them all kinds of loop holes. Years that this country has been under the GOP party, the richest companies and higher income people end up paying fewer taxes than the middle and lower class. Then, when the country gets tired of financial and other messes the GOP has led us into, the DEMs make it into office, balance the budget and clean up the mess. DEMs initiated the New Deal which put the ailing country back to work when there had been no jobs, with thousands of infrastructure jobs. The DEMs initiated Social Security that saved the seniors from starving to death. I would like to know how many of GOP party have benefited from those programs. This mortgage crisis is unforgivable. It has taken the entire worlds financial programs down with it. The other countries that depended on us to be the leaders of the worlds markets are looking at us as complete and total idiots to have allowed the greedy crooks to operate for so long, right under our noses. The world is listening to all the campaign speeches, reading the web sites of each candidates plans, and can see as well as we can that the McCain/Palin rallies lie, lie and twist everything out of proportion and turn everything Obama/Palin say and distort it 180 degrees. Is McCain that touched in the head that he isn’t even concerned about how important honesty and integrity are? Not to mention just plain common sense. I can’t believe that the image we were led to believe of Palin has all been a lie too. If she was honest and believed in doing the right thing, she wouldn’t be going around the country reading those speeches with all the lies written for her. If it wasn’t so serious, it is almost real Saturday Night Live material. Obama and Biden make their speeches in a town, people listen, and then McCain & Palin visit that town or a town close by, and try to tell the people that Obama and Biden said something totally different and opposite of what they actually said. Do they think that the American people are that stupid? The rallies that are on TV are treated the same way. I can’t believe that there are so many people that don’t listen to both candidates. If they did, they would see how dishonest the McCain/Palin candidates are. There is still time for everyone to listen and watch BOTH candidates rallies and speeches. Our country is in the worst shape it has ever been in, it is so deadly important that we need a president with Integrity, Honesty, Strength, and Common Sense to lead us out of this mess. It is terrible that McCain/Palin have taken the low road in all their campaign rallies and rhetoric, actually believing that the American People are so naive, gullible and plain stupid that we would give into and believe all the fear mongering, twisted facts and right out lies they are trying to shove down our necks. Shame on you both Sen. McCain and Gov Palin!! That is not our definition of an American Hero or a leader we can trust and depend on to bring us out of this mess. This is the greatest country in the world, and deserves a leader that is respected, honest and the one that is the most Dignified, honorable and intelligent leader in the free world. That team ‘my friends’ is Sen. Barack Obama and Sen. Joseph Biden.

    Truth is generally the best vindication against slander. -Abraham Lincoln

  • Babs

    Carrie, Obama has been distorting and slandering McCain’s policies on the stump and in his ads for 2 years now. Take a look at factcheck.org. Poor Biden says what he says, no one can twist that. He’s the gift that keeps on giving.

    You seem very angry that McCain and Palin will not go quietly into that good night. Well, there’s a reason for that, Carrie. It’s because Obama Bin Lying, my friend.

  • DJS

    Carrie…I guess in a way we are in the same boat except that I am fed up with Obama’s lies and his questionable ties to radical people. You may not be concerned about that but I think we should be.

    By the way Carrie you may want to look up tax rates during the Clinton administration and then look at them for the Bush administration. Actually you don’t have to look them up I did that for you.


    So you can say the GOP is only for big business but why then did Bush cut everyone’s taxes. If you think you are going to get a big tax break from Obama think again. Between his $845B for the UN to give money to 3rd world countries, Pelosi’s $300B bill for who knows what waste and Barney Frank has already stated they will have to raise taxes good luck. You will have democrat in the white house and majority in the congress and there will be no checks or balances to question what they are doing.

    This is funny. You think that Obama has integrity, honesty, strength and common sense. Just check the news lately. If you don’t play by his rules he will take his marbles and go home. That is how childish he is. I want a man for president not some spoiled little boy who gets upset if someone says anything against what he believes in.

  • DJS

    Carrie…if the republicans screwed up the mortgage industry why is it that the democrats haven’t started an investigation into it? It is because Dodd, Frank and Obama, just to name a few, had their fingers in the cookie jar and the proof would come out.

  • Hawk


    Please don’t be a typical obamabot false-messiah-worshipping twit.

    The topic of this discussion is very simple: Obama has produced and offered up for review a BOGUS, PHONY BIRTH CERTIFICATE. As on so many other issues and associations, HE IS A LIAR AND A FRAUD. Period.

    A marxist, terrorist-hugging, pro-baby-killing, dictator-excusing, military-hating, gun-grabbing, WOULD-BE LEFTIST LOON OF A DICTATOR.

    Get a grip on reality. STAY ON TOPIC or shut the hell up.

  • Q. If Obama has in fact already released the details of his birth, then why does he refuse to grant permission to make his birth records public?



  • Bill Hedges

    $845 Billion for U.N. ???????????????? Obama’s NUTS !!!!!

  • Hawk

    Hey Carrie, thanks for the Lincoln quote!

    Here are some other genuine Lincoln quotes for you:

    . If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. (Letter to Horace Greeley,New York Tribune, August 22, 1862)


    In the September 18, 1858 debate, Lincoln said:

    “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And in as much as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”


  • Harriett

    Carrie, Do you think that we just sit back and listen to what the news says about such important issues? Do you think that we let one candidate dictate to us what he wants us to hear, thinking that we will not investigate on our own. The fact that obama is lying stands out above all else, and sure lets blame the republicans for everything and one-sided and un-just is that? I am so tired of hearing people state what a poor job our president is doing. When our country became victim to what has now apparently become known as the beloved muslim race, we all wanted justice. We were proud that our president was not going to sit back and let them just walk away quietly. Can you honestly state that you felt at that particular moment our president was not backed by you? Even the men that are serving under this man are proud to do their job, and now we want to tell them to throw out a white flag and come home. What about all the men that have lost their lives to protect our nation? We now are going to tell our troops that we are voting in NOT a BLACK man, as so many want to make this about race, he is a MUSLIM. If Colin Powell would have ran for president he is possibly someone that I would have voted for, I had a certain respect for him and his values. What has happened to the American people? This man has you all acting like a bunch of empty head, walking zombies.

    REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of Pan Am Flight 103!

    REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993!

    REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the Marine Barracks in Lebanon!

    REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the military Barracks in Saudi Arabia !

    REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the American Embassies in Africa !

    REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the USS COLE!

    REMEMBER the MUSLIM attack on 9/11/2001 !

    REMEMBER all the AMERICAN lives that were lost in those vicious MUSLIM attacks!

    The war that was started by a bunch of inhuman individuals for the sake of having a place they believe is guaranteed to them is why our country is in this financial crisis. War cost money and I would have expected no less out of our president. What would you have done differently? And please stop telling me about all the wonderful things that your muslim candidate will do for our country. Everything that I have looked up about him states that he is a puppet on someones strings. In the Library of Congress I also found that the good bills that he put his name on were in fact already submitted by another party an earlier date. And why is he stalling about his birth certificate? Do you personally know this man? Can you actually state for a fact that you know what he is saying is true and fact? If so please produce to us your documents and we will shut up. I could care less whether or not a democrat aor a republican are in office, but you can bet that I do care if they are muslim. Have whatever religion you want to have in this country, it is your right. But not in the White House and certainly not leading our Nation!

    So, Carrie you vote for obama, and I will consider it an insult to the fallen soldiers and the ones that are currently fighting to keep America safe.

    Hope that you are not seriously thinking that obama is all that you stated?
    Integrity, Honesty, Strength, and Common Sense?

    He is a smart and smooth talker and will only say what everyone wants to hear. How did Hitler do it?

  • Independent Woman


    “We now are going to tell our troops that we are voting in NOT a BLACK man, as so many want to make this about race, he is a MUSLIM.”

    I don’t know quite how to tell you this dear,- but, Obama is not a Muslim.

  • Bill Hedges

    Why doesn’t Obama help out his aunt,, who is in Boston,, illegally ??

  • Michael

    Harriet– it is not good to start trying to isolate religious groups for violence.

    Remember who bombed the Atlanta Olympics? WHITE CHRISTIANS?

    Remember who bombed the Oklahoma City Building? WHITE CHRISTIANS.

    Remember who bombs abortion clinics– CHRISTIANS

    we can play this game all year round and I can offer you loads of examples from the Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, Sikh, and Jewish traditions.

    People commit violence.

  • The game is rigged, we all know. I’m not sure facts or truth matter against the force of government authority. The FBI and the CIA have read “Obama Nation” and listened to Philip J. Berg’s videos. They know all about the behind-the-scenes maneuvering, and still nothing has been done (yet). As Pontius Pilate said, “What is truth?” Power is all that matters. How big is your army?

    The Lord God will sort it out… but He takes a long, long time. If Sen. Obama is indeed the one, Christians aren’t long for this world. I’m making sure my ticket for the rapture – the only flight that matters – is valid for Jan. 21.

  • Lori

    Sooooo, how is Obama’s grandma feeling lately????

  • Robert

    Apparently John McCain hasn’t released any birth certificate at all, in spite of the “raging debate” over his eligibility to be POTUS. God save us all if he wins! He’s undoubtedly hiding it because it reveals some horrible secret!

    Okay, okay; I’m joking.

    But seriously, it’s amazing to me how some of you folks are so worked up over something so trivial, and you’re so busy shouting you haven’t even read the document itself that Obama released. Here’s what it says at the bottom:

    OHBM 1.1 (Rev. 11/01) LASER This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding. [HRS 338-13(b), 338-19]

    So it’s a relatively recently-printed replacement certificate (later than 2001, anyway), and it won’t match the type-written format from 1963. My birth certificate is similar — I lost the original sometime as a college kid (not the most responsible time of my life…) so I requested a replacement when I needed it.

    Why are people demanding that Obama show the original document? What would that prove? I know *I* can’t provide my original, but why would I need to? The only point is that Obama (and I) was born in the US, and can legally show it.

    YES his replacement document (and mine) is legally valid for proving time/place of birth, as it states on the document itself.

    Unless anyone’s claiming that it’s a forgery — *is* anyone claiming that? That’s be pretty damned easy to prove if it held any water at all.

    Please, people, get past these kinds of nonsensical “scandals” and try to actually consider what your government should be doing, try to determine how the various candidates would perform (local as well, not just the POTUS!) and vote based on that.

  • Robert

    Another way to (maybe?) make this discussion a little smarter. Read this:

    According to that, McCain was born at the Colon Hospital in the Republic of Panama, and is not a natural-born citizen of the US, but “naturalized”.

    Go through the whole thing, and see how long it takes to research and refute all of the points. Is it worth your time? Or is this all ridiculous and irrelevant?

  • Harriett

    Michael, I agree with you people do commit violence. As I stated earlier my opinion is just that, my opinion. But, how can we even question if John McCain is a US citizen? He served our country and while in the Navy became a POW, and after being confined for years I was most impressed with the statement he made when he was released. “Had a lot of time to think over there, and came to the conclusion that one of the most important things in life—along with a man’s family—is to make some contribution to his country.”

  • Stalin


    It’s telling that you put “White” in front of Christians who you point out to be terrorists. Harriets examples referenced Muslims but did not specify race. Furthermore, your argument is weak. If you want to see the list of terrorist attacks over the last 25 years, you will be sorely dissappointed to see that the great majority were commited by Muslims.

  • Harriett

    Independent Woman,

    I don’t know quite how to tell you this dear,- but, Obama is not a Muslim.

    Well dear, you stated it quite well,- but, the fact does remain that he studied the koran.


    For those who talk about John McCain being born in panama it is totally differant.

    A child who is born of a U.S. Citizen on a military instalation ofr of a parent who is a military memeber in an official status is a U.S. citizen regardless and is issued a U.S. Birth Certificate from the Military Hospital in which the child was born.

    Barak Obama has been lying through his teeth on many issues. Some of you might look at the real truth in that the reason that John McCain’s campaign has not been as interesting as Barack Obama’s is that John McCain has a perpensity to tell the truth and not cover his faults by a lot of charasmatic lying and denial.

  • Harriett

    What if he still believes in the muslim faith? What will America be like?

    1. THE JIHAD ISN’T ABOUT THE WAR IN IRAQ. In 1979 America’s president was Jimmy Carter. By undermining the Shah, Carter had helped the Islamic revolutionaries to seize power in Iran. Yet one million Iranians, organized by the revolutionary Islamic regime, filled the streets of Tehran chanting “Death to America.”
    2. THE JIHAD ISN’T ABOUT ISRAEL Significant Jihad groups can be found today in Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand, Kashmir, Chechnya, Nigeria, and other countries that have no conceivable quarrel with Israel. Even the Jihad’s quarrel with Israel is not about borders or “occupation” but about the expulsion of all non-Islamic peoples from the Middle East.
    3. THE JIHAD ISN’T ABOUT AMERICA. Long before American troops entered Afghanistan and Iraq, the first modern Jihad movement, the Muslim Brotherhood, was founded in Egypt in 1928. The Jihad ideology that fuels modern terror activity is identical to the Jihad ideology that justified Islam’s aggressive wars for centuries before America existed.
    4. THE GOAL OF JIHAD IS WORLD DOMINATION. The creation of a unified Islamic state, which will ultimately encompass the globe, is the stated goal of Jihad.
    5. THE IDEOLOGY OF THE JIHAD TERRORISTS IS DEEPLY ROOTED IN ISLAM. Today’s jihad’s use the koran and the words and deeds of Muhammad to justify their actions. They present their views as “pure Islam,” and convince many Muslims that that’s what it is.
    6. THE JIHAD IDEOLOGY DEMANDS THE KILLING OF “INFIDELS” (NON-MUSLIMS) OR THEIR CONVERSION TO ISLAM OR THEIR SUBJUGATION AS INFERIORS UNDER ISLAMIC LAW. All the orthodox sects of Sunni and Shiite Islam, as well as all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, teach the necessity of Jihad warfare and the subjugation of non-Muslims under Islamic law. Non-Muslims are denied equality of rights under that law in numerous ways.
    7. THE JIHAD IS ADVANCING THROUGH SUBVERSION AS WELL AS VIOLENT MEANS. Attempts to compel Western governments to adopt laws outlawing blasphemy in the wake of the Danish cartoon riots are part of a larger effort to bring Islamic law to the West and to subordinate its Christian, Jewish, and secular populations to Islam.
    8. THE JIHAD IDEOLOGY INSTITUTIONALIZES THE OPPRESSION OF WOMEN. Islamic law legalizes wife-beating, denies the equality of a woman’s testimony with that of a man, mandates that women are not even to leave the house without permission, along with numerous other oppressive regulations.
    9. THE JIHAD IDEOLOGY INSTITUTIONALIZES THE OPPRESSION OF NON-MUSLIMS. Under the traditional Islamic law that Jihad’s fight to restore, non-Muslims must pay a special tax, not hold authority over Muslims, not build or repair their houses of worship, and many other regulations designed that the “feel themselves subdued”.
    10.THE JIHAD IS A THREAT TO ALL FREE PEOPLE. The Jihad ideology denies freedom of conscience. Jihad’s take to heart Muhammad’s dictum, “If anyone changes his religion, kill him,” and deny Muslims any freedom to convert or have no religion at all. The Jihad’s would extinguish equality of the sexes, equality of rights before the law, freedom of conscience, and more. All free people should resist them.

  • Independent Woman

    Plesase study the Islamic faith. You are ill informed. Read Rumi, learn about Sufi Islam.

    America’s biggest enemy is not Islam, it is ignorance.

  • Bill Hedges

    RoberTides==What McCain promises can occur. Obama’s cannot without gigantic national debt. Look at this one thing- $865 Billion for United Nations !!. Come on. How real is that !!

  • IndiMinded

    This thread wins the “most ignorant hatred expressed” award. Truly sickening. Obama bin Lying? that wouldn’t be a lighthearted 9/11 joke, would it babs? Those were sure funny times, huh?

  • Bill Hedges

    Ind- Why not give release so birth certificate could be verfied. Instead , it is sealed. FBI or someone is bound to check it. Might get him more votes too….

  • Hawk

    ** Nuked by Admin **

    Note: Profanity and swearing are not acceptable, thanks!

  • Harriett

    Independent Woman,

    You did not finish your statement.

    America’s biggest enemy is not Islam, it is ignorance of a taliban group reading from a book that tells them to kill the non-believers of the muslim faith.

    Having researched this book, leaves me with no desire to study it.

  • Fred Jacob

    It’s real simple, and no one seems to be seeing the diference of the documents posted on Obama’s website or the factcheck type sites. According to Hawaii Dept. of Health rules, the documents issued are two types, A “Certificate” or “Certification” of Live Birth. A Certificate, is the document issued when the Doctor records and transmits or sends the the birth information to the state for recording (usually from the hospital or a home delivery or in public prior to arrival at hospital a.k.a. ambulance ride) either way a doctor must confirm the birth took place in the state prior to issuance of a Certificate of Live Birth. A Certification is issued and recorded for persons born abroad, this according to the HI Dept. of Health rules/regs.
    For going to Harvard and becoming a lawyer, ya think he would have caught this prior to giving out a Certification of Live Birth to go all over the net? You know what they say, once it’s on the net, ya can’t take it back…
    But hey, don’t take my word for it, you can call the director of public health HI and ask him, or there is a nice article on http://www.newswithviews.com under author Devvy Kidd, Part 1, 11-3-2008. So here are two sources backing up what I’m saying, call or check for yourself, I did.

  • Stalin

    Logic would dictate that there is something on Obama’s original birth certificate that he does not want people to see. Otherwise, it would be a simple matter of releasing the document to dispell any rumors and to put a stop to these costly lawsuits. If Obama thinks this issue is going away if/when he is elected, he is badly mistaken. If anything, the pressure will mount for him to show his original birth certificate. Obama has proven to be a very stubborn man. This is not a good quality for the most powerful man in the world to have.

  • Michael

    Harriet, I am sorry, but your comments are not accurate. For instance, I have been to the Philippines and Thailand– I have talked with the people involved in those insurrections (Moros, Malay Muslims) and they are not “Jihadists.” These are regional struggles for autonomy, and they happen to be Muslim.

    Have you read the Qu’ran? Does reading the Quran mean someone is dangerous?

    Stalin, I inserted “White” as a racial category, because it is necessary these days. We have racialized the Muslim identity to be synonymous with Arabs, when there are Christian, Zoroastrian, Jewish, and so on religious identities in the Middle East (the oldest Christian groups are from that area).

    The largest populations of Muslims are: Indonesia, Pakistan, India, and China– in that order. But we have not included this diversity of affiliations and beliefs in our general conception of what Islam is in the United States. For me to simply say “Christian,” in my retort, would have ignored the identity that is really in place– the fears of White Christians in the European Union, the Christian Identity Movement in the United States, the Neo-Nazis, etc., who see their White Christian heritage threatened (Timothy McVeigh is but one example of this).

  • Stalin


    Your lawyer double speak doesnt’ work on me. Now you are associating Christians and Neo-Nazis. Nice work.

  • Supporter

    I worked at the NYC Clerk’s office in Manhattan, NY. The documents that one receives today as proof of marriage is much different from the ones that were received 40+ years ago. Surely they are on microfilm but with modern computers they aren’t hand written copied anymore.
    Likely, the same instance is with Obama’s birth certificate. If asked for a copy of mine in NYC, I’d receive a computer generated copy not a hand written copy or microfilm copy. Are we insinuating that the state of Hawaii’s government office’s would be any different? I believe Hawaii has come into the 22st century. And also should the rest of the country be open minded and less critical of progress.

  • Harriett

    Michael, There are many nominal Muslims in this country that reject the dangerous doctrines taught in the koran and throughout fundamental Islam. They don’t believe they should kill Jews or Christians. They don’t believe they will be rewarded in paradise for such atrocities. Nevertheless, we know that the world is filled with Muslims who do attempt to follow the Koran in detail. They believe the fundamental tenants of the Islamic religion. These people are dangerous. These people are to blame for the horrific events on September 11. I am not calling people to give up their beliefs. I accept the nominal form of the Islamic religion practiced by many in this country as true. No, in this country you have a right to speak your mind, to debate, and to peaceably make converts. This is one major thing that makes our country different than the dangerous Islamic countries. And, in my opinion Obama’s association with a known terrorist, and being a member of a church that certainly seems to lean towards being a racist type group is not acceptable. Also, he has studied the koran and how do we know exactly which way he leans on this subject, the good and peaceful side you want me to see or is it the dangerous side that I might see?

  • Hopefull

    You have to be a fool to even doubt his status or attempt to state that documents are fake. Many Americans do not have their original Birth Certificates on hand. Now the FACT remains, the copy is an official notirized version of the oginal information that many of us get when we need one now.

    You have to be totally clueless to even attempt to claim otherwise. Since HAwaii has stamped the copy, it is 100% REAL. THeir is no debate over it unless you are that uninformed, and despirate. There won’t be any court case into for the simple FACT, it has already be verified 100%. END OF DEBATE.

  • Hopefull

    I also need to ask. WHere did Muslim come into play? Obama is not Muslim. Christianity is a majority in Kenya (british influence), the Muslim excuse is a lame tactic liek most of McCain’s garbage.

    Not all Muslims are the same, Reading the book would show soem facts ignorant people tend to not know, it is peritted to kill christians or jews for no reason unless your land and beliefs are attacked in holy lands. The christian bible says the same thing. Typically ignorant people read one line but do not read the rest and are clueless.

    Militant groups such as Al Queda ARE NOT true Muslims, but militants who use the beliefs, twist them, and rewrite the law, the orginal Quaran does not contain 1 book and 20 lines changed. Of coruse the bible has been alteerd as well over time, hasn’t it.

    I know Muslims who’s family or themselve left their region to find true Belief freedom. Muslims fought among each other, seprated by miltant groups seeking control. They have said to us in talks before “We only found true ISlam by havign true freedom in AMerica”.

  • Stalin

    U.S. Supreme Court Justice David Souter has rejected an emergency appeal for the court to halt the tabulation of the 2008 presidential election results until Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama documents his eligibility to run for the office, according to an attorney who brought the action that challenges the Illinois senator’s standing in the race.

    However, the issue isn’t going away, at least for now, since Souter set a schedule for a response from Obama to the challenge from attorney Philip J. Berg.


  • S Ann Soebama

    I had copies of the original birth record for each of my sons, as we planned to travel before the COLBs would be available. These worked for many years, but then the passport laws went into effect and we decided to travel to Canada and Ireland last summer.

    When attempting to get their passports, I was told that I had to get the certificates of live birth, as these have the proper information in the proper places. I obtained the certified printouts (as opposed to the hospital record submitted to the state) and got their passports.

    What Obama has shown is what the State Department demands: all the right stuff in all the right places, certified by a vital records department. If you took that “birth certificate” from 1961, you couldn’t get a passport with it these days. That’s because it contains all sorts of extra information in a non-standard format. If the state department demands a COLB for passports, why shouldn’t that be enough for POTUS?

    In any case, he squirted between Stanley Ann’s thighs, no matter where he was born. That makes him a citizen by birth according to lengthy case law applicable at the time.

  • Michael

    Harriet, maybe our confusion lies in your use of ‘nominal.’ Ordinarily, it infers very little, and so it sounds like you are saying very few Muslims are not into the Jihadist movement.

    If you read the Qur’an (I am assuming you have not, but instead listening to others’ comments on it, who they themselves probably have not read the Qur’an), you will find it to be just as open, peace-promoting, and respectful as the Bible or the Tanakh. There are over 1.4 billion Muslims in the world, and the vast vast majority of them condemn violence. According to the Qur’an, to kill one person is the same as killing all of humanity.

    I fear it is too easy to pigeon-hole an entire group when we are unfamiliar with their culture, practices, and history.

  • Harriett

    Michael, my wording “nominal” was to be used as an adjective meaning, as in those of true muslim faith and those that adapt the muslim faith. Therefore, you will no longer be hindered with confusion. You stated that ordinarily the word was used to state the meaning “less”, so I assume you also knew the other meanings. Please, if you are going to knit pick the wording of every statement made do so effectively. It only makes you pigeon-hole the entire group when you are unfamiliar with the definitions of every word that you wish to “hang” on.

  • Harriett– I applaud your knowledge of the various adjectival usages of “nominal,” and urge you to expand that breadth to cover the traditions and beliefs of Muslims.

  • Harriett

    Michael – apparently you are used to having things YOUR way. Do men and women always swoon in your presence?

    Don’t you realize that there are enough people to hate in this world, without your working so hard to give us another?

  • Dreadsen


    “Michael – apparently you are used to having things YOUR way. Do men and women always swoon in your presence? ”

    Could you explain to me how you came to this strange conclusion from his last statement?

    “Don’t you realize that there are enough people to hate in this world, without your working so hard to give us another?”

    What group is Michael working hard to get us to hate?
    I don’t understand that statement.

    My next questioin.
    You say there are enough people in the world to hate. I assume you advocate hate and embrace it? If i’m wrong in this assumption please explain.

  • Independent Woman

    Your posts were as usual, accurate and well articulated on the subject of Islam. I am in agreement with Dreadsen that none of your statements advocated hate; quite the opposite.
    Thank you.

  • Babs

    Harriett, Michael tends to nit pick, it’s in his personality. He will debate you over the meaning of a word til the cows come home.

    Michael, yes, cows come home, and the phrase is acceptable and not without double meaning. But you get mine. 😉

  • Harriett

    Had any of you read my previous post you would have known what my statement meant. Did I not concede that there were in fact muslim born and muslim adopted faith who study the koran and that all do not do unjust in the name of their allah?

    My point to Michael, understand the meaning of what you are reading before you make negative comments.

    If all statements are going to be picked apart, maybe we need to involve the media so it would be done correctly, or would it be?

  • Harriett

    Thanks Babs,

    I love a good debate, unless you read my quote to Michael taken to mean “I hate everyone and everything” then you have to wonder.

  • Babs

    I understand your post completely, Harriett, and I tend to agree with you. What I meant by my comment was that, really, you just chose a subject that’s totally in the realm of Michael’s world and as a professor and author, he’s really just enjoying debating with you since he’s probably considered an authority on the subject in many circles. Our relationship on the site – mine and Michael’s – began just like this, arguing over the meaning of a word. As I recall, we finally called it “a push” and went on to other topics. I admit I get a kick out of seeing others take him to task like you are, though. Good job.

    (PS Michael, yes, I googled you a long time ago.) 😉

  • Harriett

    Ouch Babs, a Professor and an Author better keep me in your prayers!

  • Babs

    *LOL* Michael’s a good guy, I don’t think he takes anything personally. If he did, he’d have thrown me off this board months ago.

  • Harriett

    Thanks Babs!

  • Nice work!

    If you would like to see the most complete and definitive analysis of everything related to Obama’s bogus birth certificate, you can find four months of research on my website, The Greater Evil, and also on the Free Republic forum.

    The following would be a good starting point:

    Polarik’s Final Report: Obama’s ‘Born’ Conspiracy Part One, September 17, 2008

    Catchy title, yes?

    I’m currently finishing up Born Conspiracy, Part Two, which includes a thorough debunking of Factcheck’s phony photos.

    BTW, I’ve been doing research on this since June 13, so if there’s any info that you need, leave me a note.

  • Stalin


    The embedded link you provided isn’t working, can you give us the actual link. Thanks

  • Babs

    The link through the username doesn’t work, either, Polarik.

    Stalin, do you think obama will finally submit his record of live birth?

  • Stalin


    I don’t think we will ever see his original birth certificate. The problem is that nobody wants to go through the pain of a constitutional crisis if there is something sketchy going on. Obama has so many people in his pocket, they would rather sweep it under the rug to avoid any potential embarrasment. If McCain hadn’t shown his original, the press would be all over him…even if he won.

  • Babs

    Well, I don’t really care about his birth certificate, it could say anything, look at the millions of adopted children with “real” birth certificates. I want to see the record of live birth from the Hawaii hospital – one of them, anyway. (his sister named two that he was born at?)

  • Stalin


    That’s what I was referring to…the one that is signed by the doctor. What Obama has provided is a Certification of Live Birth…its just an electronic copy that is spit out.

  • Babs

    I agree with you, though, I think if the CIA or whoever found out right now he was Kenyan born they would bury it so deep it’d never see the light of day. The government would look like idiots for letting him run to begin with.

  • Stalin

    We might see something in his memoirs, which I’m sure he’s already started writing.

  • Babs

    Well, let’s hope his next memoirs contain more truth. It’s pretty bad when you write a book, and then on its re-release preface it with the fact that some of the content isn’t true. 😉

  • Dreadsen

    Well all i want to know is how the other conspiracy theorist are going to explain Obama winning. They claimed that McCain was the engine of the new world order and Obama was only used to defeat the clintons.

    This Birth Certificate thing is great! Keep it going!

    Hey you know what? He may have actually been born in Indonesia. But the Cia will never release this info now that he is president because it will be too embarrassing. ( who didn’t see that one coming)

  • Babs

    “They claimed that McCain was the engine of the new world order”

    Wow, Dreadsen, who claimed that? I’d have liked seeing that one. 😉

  • Stalin

    Now Alan Keyes is suing for the birth certificate. As I said, this is not going away.


  • Stalin

    Also, Philip Berg is still at it. He ran this ad in the Wash. Times National Weekly magazine yesterday:


  • Babs

    This just gets more and more interesting. Did I hear correctly that he has to produce proof by Dec. 1st?

  • Babs

    Stalin, this is on obama’s fight the smears site. I never saw this on factcheck, but that’s where they attribute it to. Doesn’t this sound like he’s admitting being born in Kenya, or am I reading it wrong?

    ““When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

    Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.””

  • Kathy

    Branded, your’s may be just about the dumbest post that I’ve read to date. What makes me an American citizen is the fact that I was born in America. Had I not been born here, I would have to go through a lengthy legal procedure to become a citizen-as many many people have had to do. What are you-12?

  • Babs

    Hey Stalin, looks like this is going before the Supreme Court Friday, and there’s a petition going to them as well. Here’s the link to the article and the petition, I signed it.


  • Babs

    Got this in email this morning:

    A case that challenges President-elect Barack Obama’s name on the 2008 election ballot citing questions over his citizenship has been scheduled for a “conference” at the U.S. Supreme Court on December 5 — this Friday!

    Conferences are private meetings of the justices at which they review cases and decide which ones to accept for formal review. If only four of the nine justices vote to hear the case in full, oral arguments may be scheduled.

  • Jane

    I’m glad to see that this is being questioned! I do know that I was contacted by a “Friend” with the Supreme Court! Obama was contacted by them on April 19th. Obama “I have Officially Sealed All of My Personal Records from ANYONE’S EYES!” He did THAT on April 21st, 2009! Any Wonder?

    BTW – When he ‘Sealed’ his records – That was on All the Networks for 2 Days!

    Peace to All and God Bless! Jane.

  • jon

    Its not made up, that doesn’t look anything like a real birth certificate. This bullshit from democrats is outrageous. I can’t even find that seal on another document. In high res from their own site, it has all kinds of tells as to being a digitally created document. I made a fake certificate before but it was a joke, it has a lot of the same problems. If this can get someone into the white house perhaps I should print a diploma from Harvard.

    Jackasses, the governor of Hawaii actually classified all of his documents, public record. That would include a Birth certificate. That clearance level has not been lifted. If they really showed his documents on TV or website the people airing it would be arrested. Since they are not arrested, clearly it was not anything classified. If they didn’t show something classified then its not a legitimate document from Hawaii. Logic ans science. Start with observable reliable data. Then logically find a conclusion. I’m sorry most democrats went to public school where they learned about gay sex and bullshit. I tool logic classes and calculus, I should remember that I’m talking to people half my intelligence most of the time.