Economic fear driving voters toward Obama

I’ve heard all week from election historians how economic difficulties often drive the electorate toward the Democratic candidate. More and more, given the economic news, it appears as though Obama is riding this wave. What changed between now and the conventions? Bad economic news which has just seemed to keep coming. Of course, as we know, it’s the economy, stupid.

I found an interesting article discussing this concept which I feel hit the nail on the head as to what changed in the past few weeks which has given Obama a strong lead.

Story on this from the UK Globe and Mail:

WASHINGTON — Economic fears among voters have produced a seismic shift in the U.S. presidential election in key swing states.

According to a spate of new polls, contests that for weeks seemed to be toss-ups, such as Pennsylvania, Michigan and Iowa, have swung solidly in favour of Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama. And several states that appeared to be safely in hand for Republican John McCain, including Ohio, North Carolina, Missouri and Nevada, have become the new battlegrounds.

At the state level, the situation for Mr. McCain is becoming desperate.

A week ago, all eyes were on Pennsylvania. The Republicans were challenging the Democrats in this key battleground state, with two different polls showing both candidates in a dead heat.

Not any more. A Quinnipiac University poll released yesterday puts Mr. Obama ahead of Mr. McCain in Pennsylvania by a whopping 15 points, 54 per cent to 39 per cent.

Three other recent polls, by Fox News/Rasmussen, Franklin and Marshall and Morning Call, all put Mr. Obama ahead by seven or eight points.

In Michigan, the other battleground state that the Democrats took in 2004 and simply must hold if they are to win in 2008, a recent Detroit Free Press poll had Mr. Obama in front by 13 percentage points.

With Mr. Obama comfortably ahead in the big states where he was considered most vulnerable, attention is shifting to two key states that the Republicans took last time out: Ohio and Florida.

Quinnipiac has Mr. Obama eight points up in Florida, while a CNN/Time Magazine/Opinion Research poll also released yesterday has Mr. Obama ahead 51 per cent to 47 per cent. A recent survey from Public Policy Polling has Mr. Obama up three points, while Fox News/Rasmussen has the race tied.

This is a marked change from previous data, which showed Mr. McCain with a modest but consistent lead in the Sunshine State.

Quinnipiac also has Mr. Obama up eight points in Ohio, although other surveys show the race essentially tied. Again, most previous polls showed Mr. McCain modestly ahead in the state that tipped the election for President George W. Bush in 2004.

So what gives with the shift since, for months before the conventions, Obama was unable to open up a lead anywhere near what he appears to have now.

Here’s the answer:

“There are three things driving this election right now: the economy, the economy and the economy,” said Clay Richards, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute, in an interview.

Voters have long rated it the most important issue, and they have long trusted Mr. Obama over Mr. McCain to manage it. But that trend is accelerating.

In Florida, for example, the Quinnipiac poll shows 60 per cent of voters now rate the economy issue No. 1. And 53 per cent of all voters said they preferred Mr. Obama on the economy, compared with 39 per cent for Mr. McCain.

Unless the current economic crisis recedes in importance over the remaining 33 days of the campaign, or unless Mr. McCain can reverse the majority perception that the Democrats are a better bet on economic issues, then the Republicans are headed for a difficult day Nov. 4.

Polls have showed for months that voters seem to favor Obama on the economy which wasn’t a huge issue for McCain until recent weeks when the economy became front and center.

Of course, McCain’s lax schedule of weekends off doesn’t help him either.

As of this very moment on October 5th, things look for good Obama. However, there are about 30 days left in this race which, as we saw during the primary season, can change things on a dime.

So the article concludes:

So is this race over? Heck, no. If Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin exceeds expectations tonight or if Mr. Obama performs poorly in the two remaining presidential debates, the narrative could shift. And as Mr. Richards observes: “The one thing you can predict in this campaign is that it’s unpredictable.”

Mr. McCain could use a very strong dose of unpredictable, right now.

Palin held up her duty and performed well enough at the VP debate. I believe the race will come down to the final two presidential debates in which McCain will have to really try and unseat Obama’s current position. Obama will simply have to remain collected and hope nothing new comes up between now and November 4th.

This is the most exciting time of the campaign as both sides are doing their best to make no mistakes yet make effective attacks on the other side, it’s a tightrope.

The next debate is this Tuesday, October 7th at 9PM ET. The final one is Wednesday, October 15th at 9PM ET.

  • EricF

    whats going on with Obamas birth certificate? as in why cant he produce it? something to hide? why are dem, groups trying to block the ruling that Obama must produce it? why not kill the speculation and just produce the damn thing?

    why is Obama tied to all these shady characters? why is he trying to downplay those associations?

    Tuesdays debate could be game changing. McCain is taking off the gloves. we should learn alot about Obama over this next month.

  • U.S.A.

    Palin is driving voters toward Obama. McCain was stupid enough to put her on the ticket so that shows his ability to my a choice.

  • EricF

    i mean, i dont know if he is a citizen or not but its real shady that he wont produce a birth certificate and that they are fighting this suit so hard. isnt Obama the one talking about transparency? yet he wont or cant even produce documents proving his claim to citizenship. he obviously has alot to hide.

  • Annette

    The story is about the economy and if the crisis is driving voters toward Obama then it probably is because voters don’t take the time to check the history of the problem. The problem began in 1999 with the end of the Glass-Steagall act which was enacted in 1933 to regulate the banking industry. President Clinton signed the GLB (Gramm/Leach/Bliley) Act in 1999 which virtually wiped out the Glass-Steagall Act. Those three names are indeed republicans and yes the Senate and the House were in the hands of the Republicans but Clinton pushed for this bill as hard as they did. His buddies Rubin and Greenspan pushed for it as well and now who is one of the financial advisors for Obama? Rubin that’s who. In addition one of his other head financial advisors is Penny Pritzer who was the chairman of the board for Superior FSB which went under due to risky mortgage and auto lending practices. Clinton could have vetoed this bill that brought about deregulation and which led to this crisis but he didn’t. There weren’t enough votes to overide his veto so it can’t be blamed on just the Republicans and certainly not on the Bush Administration. The polls show even less confidence in Congress than they do in the president. The bottom line is that greed has fueled this crisis and if you look at the lists of bundlers for Obama and McCain you will find many more listed for Obama who are directly involved with companies that are going under or have gone under in the past several years. (Lehman Brothers to name just one)

  • EricF

    anyone who hasnt yet should watch the Hannity special on Obama and his history of radicalism. very revealing. after watching you will have no doubt of what Obamas agenda really is all about.

  • Jim819


    I watched it and couldn`t agree more.

  • JD

    EricF – “watch the Hannity”

    I thought that was where you were getting your information from.

    So do you sit and watch Hannity with a paper and Pen then come on here and regurgitate it?

    Also, is there any way you can formally recognize that you looked at Obama’s Birth Certificate? I mean I did supply the links and the pictures didn’t I?

    Lies and distortions From the Jag Bag Hannity. ( Here is just one example from your beloved show)

    LIE: “They live half a mile from William Ayers, the unrepentant terrorist” and “Just a half a mile from those homes is Louis Farrakhan.”(Hannity’s America, October 5, 2008, “Obama and His Friends: History of Radicalism”)

    TRUTH: It’s true, of course, that Obama lives in this same neighborhood, as do tens of thousands of other people who presumably are also guilty by geographical association. The logic of this argument would be, if you live half a mile from a sex offender, then you agree with child molesters


    Do you believe everything Hannity and Rush tell you?

    Here are some fun quotes from hannity 1999

    “No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That’s why I’m against it.”

    “Slobodan Milosevic is a bad guy. He’s an evil man. Horrible things are happening. I agree with that. Is Bill O’Reilly then saying we go to Rwanda, Burundi, Somalia, Sudan? Where does this stop? And when you look at sheer numbers, 2,000 — and I’m not minimizing death. It’s horrible. What this man is doing with ethnic cleansing is abhorrent, but sheer numbers — 2,000 killed in the last year versus hundreds of thousands, millions in some cases in other parts of the world. Are you saying the United States should go to all those places?”

    “Joint chiefs doubted the strategy from the very beginning. And the outline, they didn’t think the air campaign would work.
    And they turned out to be right. They didn’t prepare for the refugee problem. They didn’t prepare that Milosevic would up the ante against the ethnic Albanians, none of this. There was no preparation at all here.”

    “But if you know – every mistake we’ve made up to this point, there’s no stated goal. There’s no definition of success. All these important things. There’s no exit strategy. One mistake after another. Why would you go in deeper when we have not been successful up to this point? That seems to me to be folly.”

    ….”My, what an America-hating extremist! Saying our commander in chief is a poor planner, a propagandist, and asking for our immediate withdrawal of troops because there’s no exit strategy!

    Is there any doubt Hannity version 2004 would hate Hannity version 1998?”

  • EricF

    JD the fact is that Obama has never produced a vault version of his birth certificate. you can try to change the subject all you like but it doesnt change the fact. it also doesnt change the fact that Obama is linked with known radicals, in fact they are the ones that helped him rise to power.

    JD in case you are unaware there is a suit ongoing to compel BO to produce the proper documents to show he is indeed a US citizen. if he has nothing to hide why not just produce it? why are these clearly unauthentic copies of his COLB showing up on various websites? why is the DNC fighting so hard to get this motion thrown out? if you have nothing to hide then there shouldnt be a problem. right? right.

  • JD


    Did you read anything I linked? Probably not. You don’t do any investigation do you?

    Here I’ll copy some of statements on the issue so you and others can read it.

    The Annenberg Political Fact Check, a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania, aims to expose deception and confusion in U.S. politics.

    Recently, staffers “touched, examined and photographed” the original birth certificate kept at the Obama campaign headquarters in Chicago and concluded the document is genuine.

    “The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.,” staffers concluded.

    “When the birth certificate arrived from the Obama campaign it confirmed his name as the other documents already showed it. Still, we took an extra step: We e-mailed it to the Hawaii Department of Health, which maintains such records, to ask if it was real.

    “It’s a valid Hawaii state birth certificate,” spokesman Janice Okubo told us.”

    “At, we’re all about original sources. We don’t take anyone at their word or take the reporting of other media organizations as proof. We go to the heart of the story, the source of the truth — original, corroborating documents.

    When the official documents were questioned, we went looking for more answers. We circled back to the Department of Health, had a newsroom colleague bring in her own Hawaii birth certificate to see if it looks the same (it’s identical). But every answer triggered more questions.

    And soon enough, after going to every length possible to confirm the birth certificate’s authenticity, you start asking, what is reasonable here?

    Because if this document is forged, then they all are.

    If this document is forged, a U.S. senator and his presidential campaign have perpetrated a vast, long-term fraud. They have done it with conspiring officials at the Hawaii Department of Health, the Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics, the Illinois Secretary of State’s office, the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois and many other government agencies.

    Sounds like a Vince Flynn novel.”

    “The Hawaii Department of Health receives about a dozen e-mail inquiries a day about Obama’s birth certificate, spokesman Okubo said.

    “I guess the big issue that’s being raised is the lack of an embossed seal and a signature,” Okubo said, pointing out that in Hawaii, both those things are on the back of the document. “Because they scanned the front … you wouldn’t see those things.”

    Okubo says she got a copy of her own birth certificate last year and it is identical to the Obama one we received.

    And about the copy we e-mailed her for verification? “When we looked at that image you guys sent us, our registrar, he thought he could see pieces of the embossed image through it.”

    Still, she acknowledges: “I don’t know that it’s possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents.”

    ***WHAT ELSE DO YOU NEED? Do you want a copy of it in your hands? I have a feeling you would call it a forgery even if that happened.

    The truth is he has produced it but you don’t want to believe it.

  • bdjnk

    I cannot fathom what possible confusion people could have that would lead them to believe that Obama has a better understanding of the economy, or at least better economic advisers, then McCain.

    It was democratic senators who dismissed the concerns about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac back in ‘04. It was democrat legislation which forced the banks to give loans and extend credit to risky segments of the population. Now we have a crisis created by democrats, and who are we turning to? The democrats!?
    Relevant video –

    Obama has no experience in finances at all. He now has financial advisers who were executives of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, each involved in various financial scandals.
    Relevant article –

    This is insane! How is Obama getting away with this?

    He has a seemingly unlimited supply of frightening associates with radical extremist ideologies or boundless corruption.

    – I posted this before but on the wrong article as there was no proper article to post it on before.

  • JD

    Also here is a picture of the original (vualt) Obama birth certificate, held by FactCheck writer Joe Miller

    Alvin T. Onaka’s signature stamp


    Certificate Number

    United States Department of State. “Application for a U.S. Passport.” Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

    State of Hawaii Department of Health. “Request for Certified Copy of Birth Record.” Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

    Hollyfield, Amy. “Obama’s Birth Certificate: Final Chapter.” 27 Jun. 2008.

  • Jim819

    I too do not see how anyone in the know can possibly think BO`s better for our economy when he is part of what caused the current economic mess!

    The Hillary Clinton Forum of PUMAS, etc., from the JSND Coalition have put several videos and links together all in 1 thread. The videos expose much of BO`s corruption, associations, etc., as well as showing how BO and the Dems in Congress were mostly responsible for causing this economic mess. There`s also a video showing how McCain was really the one who tried to prevent it! There`s even 1 video showing how/why Palin is better than BO, etc!

    And you can find it all right here,

  • EricF

    JD i find it very shady that he can produce a document to a group that is Obama friendly at the least but cant produce this document to the American people. he soon will have to by order of law or he will be removed from the democratic presidntial ticket. its that simple. you however seem to have great trouble understanding such simple concepts. dont feel bad though, most if not all liberals share your problem.

  • EricF

    bdjnk, he is getting away with it because the msm refuses to take a look at the issues. this works out for McCain though since by the time all this comes to light and Obama is removed from the ticket, the democrats will have no time to produce another candidate and run a proper campaign.

  • Jim819


    Check out the link to the thread I provided. I think you`ll like it. There may be enough video evidence there to sink him. But as you point out, the MSM has to report on it 1st. Up to now, that`s been the hard part!

  • JD

    DOW JONES DOWN 200 POINTS ALREADY. Looks like economy is going to be up front and center this week too.

    **EricF – “JD i find it very shady that he can produce a document to a group that is Obama friendly at the least but cant produce this document to the American people.”

    That is because you are a conspiricy theorist and can’t believe that he has. I posted the links did I not?

    You refuse to believe anything and are so blinded by the lies that O’reilly, Hannity and Rush tell you that you just follow and repeat everything they say.

    Which is what makes you and the rest of your Die Hard Conservatives so frightening. You were willing to follow Bush’s failed Policy and believed in him all the way until he wrecked the economy and our foriegn standing.

    You don’t have any judgement. You just follow.

  • IndiMinded

    Just to be clear Eric, are you accusing of being an obama friendly organization? Or do you suspect the facts themselves of being in the tank for obama this election? just wondering

  • Babs

    Actually, IndiMinded, I’ve seen a few articles across the net that HAVE actually accused of being biased. Since then, I have looked at their “fact checks” a little more closely. I’ve also looked at their “about us” list of employees. If I had to guess, I’d say 80% of them are pro-Obama given the steorotypical slots the polls have placed us in.

    Having said that, I only have a problem with one of their articles. The question was about how much experience Obama actually had. The answer addressed how long McCain has served in office, but they never did the same for Obama, which was the question.

    I found this out of character for the site.

    Eric, I don’t know if the stories of Obama being born in Africa and transported to Hawaii 4 days later are true or not, but I have to be honest here. I don’t care. I want to see Obama lose this election on the issues and the good judgment of the american people. If Obama is disqualified for an issue such as this, it will only further divide our country along racial lines, and we don’t need that in america right now. Obama has already told so many “untruths”, of course this might be another one. But let him lose on his own merits, not by an accident of geography about his birth.

  • EricF

    why wont he just release it then? why wont he release his college records? why is the DNC attempting to block the motion compelling Obama to provide his proper documents? why all this hassle if he has nothing to hide?

    look at all his shady associates. whats up with that? look at the voter fraud going on in ohio and florida. they just showed on fox news how supposed nonpartisan get out the vote groups are telling voters to vote for Obama. its on tape. Obama is a fraud.

    the Obama campaign handbook prolly reads…


    where is Obama gonna get the money to pay for all his programs? this country is a capitalist nation, not socialist. steal from the rich and they will leave and we will turn into a third world nation, we are already halfway there. the liberal way has failed. look at California… bankrupt! why? even with all the money Hollywood brings in they are broke because people dont pay taxes and just take advantage of the system. oh but we are going to now raise taxes on those that create the very jobs that hold this country together? yeah lets see how that works out.

    and get your facts straight. Bush didnt ruin our economy. Bush was pushing for reform. the dems are the ones that were saying nothing is wrong with Fannie and Freddie. typical lib tactic to create a crisis and blame it on everyone else. who cares how many people get exploited along the way right? who cares how many people will go homeless right? as long as they can further their political career right?

    “DOW JONES DOWN 200 POINTS ALREADY. Looks like economy is going to be up front and center this week too.”

    wow! you seem so excited the economy is going down the tubes. what a POS you are. you care more about politics than the welfare of this country. get lost you liberal nutjob and dont come back.

  • JD

    McCain is looking to fund his Health Care Plan with Medicare, Medicade Cuts

    From the Wall Street Journal

    “John McCain would pay for his health plan with major reductions to Medicare and Medicaid, a top aide said, in a move that independent analysts estimate could result in cuts of $1.3 trillion over 10 years to the government programs.”

    Associated Press
    “The Republican presidential nominee has said little about the proposed cuts, but they are needed to keep his health-care plan “budget neutral,” as he has promised. The McCain campaign hasn’t given a specific figure for the cuts, but didn’t dispute the analysts’ estimate.”

  • EricF

    Babs i agree with what you are saying. it just bothers the hell out of me that the guy that talks nonstop about transparency does nothing but hide the truth. the American people deserve far better than that.

    anyway, i cannot wait until tomorrow night. the gloves are off and the bombs are going to fly. McCain is going to mop the floor with that disgrace of a human being named Obama.

  • JD

    EricF – “wow! you seem so excited the economy is going down the tubes. what a POS you are. you care more about politics than the welfare of this country. get lost you liberal nutjob and dont come back”

    Good lord you are a flaming douche. I was merely reporting that the DOW was down 200 points this morning. Probably because of the fall in the foreign markets.

    Which means, that the economy is going to be front row and center still. Which is not a good thing for McCain nor the American economy. Still, would not the DOW be down if Barack was not the candidate or McCain? What the hell does it have to do with politics?

    Man, wouldn’t it be great if the idiots like EricF left this country? I mean, i know there is no country that would take him but, seriously, wouldn’t it be great?


    You have proven time and time again that you are simply an uneducated baboon. The truth hurts and I can tell because you are in a lot of pain lately with the polls raining down on McCain and the laundry list if erratic moves he has made… his coffin is practically in the ground.

    Come back with a real candidate in 2012 and by then maybe you could educate yourself a little bit. I treat you like any teenager who doesn’t yet understand the world. I know I can’t change your mind and you have proven that you refuse to learn from your lessons (Bush administration) so you deserve all the heart ache and indigestion you will receive on November 4th.

    Still you are not a disgrace of a human just a perfect example of the waste of a human mind. Keep you blinders on EricF… it has gotten you this far.

  • JD

    Also, The DOW is now down 500 points… I am just reporting.

  • EricF

    JD i dont care what you say. you think you can make me mad or something? lol keep trying. im already under your skin its so plain to see but i have firm moral ground to stand on. this is something im afraid you will never have on your side.

    for the record im not even a republican or a dem or any other affiliation. i decide for myself who the best candidate is. i think for myself, something all you obamitized morons can never do.

  • Babs

    There you go again, JD, with the personal insults. Eric has a right to his opinions. You have set yourself up as quite the elitist here.

    Before you panic over medicare and medicaid cuts, consider this. You’re a smart guy, you should get it. There could probably be TRILLIONS cut from the medicaid program, just by eliminating medicaid fraud from individuals perpetrated by a broken GOVERNMENT system. There can also be TRILLIONS cut from Medicare by eliminating fraudulent claims by the health care industry perpetrated by a MONOPOLY of the healthcare providers. Do a little homework into these programs before you judge this as a bad thing. To fix the problems of the economy, we need to hit those sectors that are draining it fraudulently, and these two programs are big ones. They have been talked about since the Reagan Administration, but no one – republican or democrat – has done anything about it.

    Americans can’t afford health insurance because the insurance companies have raised the premiums too high. The premiums have been raised too high because the health care sector has been price gouging the insurance companies for decades and it’s reached a crisis level. Drug companies, well that’s not price gouging, that’s highway robbery. Physicians are also fat cats in this equation. The health care crisis boils back down to the economy, which is being robbed blind by the healthcare professionals. So…’s still the economy, stupid.

    Obama has no idea how to fix these problems. His solution is to burden the taxpayers even further by making the government cover the fraudulent costs of health care in this country. He’s only digging this cess pool deeper. And that’s what the American people need to realize. Obama has no solutions, he has a very expensive small bandaid for a gashing wound.

  • JD

    You aren’t a Republican? Huh… you talk, walk, and sound like one.

    My bad, Eric, you must be completely unbias and independent. 🙂

    Naw, seriously, you are a republican. You are just one of those pigs with lipstick on.

  • IndiMinded

    I’m sure you have read those accusations somewhere, and really I think the notion that a website that dedicates itself to calling both candidates liars on a daily basis clearly indicates that they’re drinking Obama’s koolaid.

    For some reason conservatives are dead set on believing that anyone in this country who is either well educated (any part of acadamia) or well informed (any part of the msm) couldn’t possibly be voting republican. Ironically the fact that I think that’s all baloney keeps my opinion of conservatives much higher than if I actually believed well educated and informed people all came to that same consensus.

    I’m sure if there was a “” a conservative somewhere would be upset at the liberal bias of putting McCain’s name first.

    Anyway, that particular rant aside, I looked at the story that bothered you and I couldn’t figure out what it is that you objected to, Babs. They did mention how long Obama had served, correcting the email’s numbers from 143 days to 304 days (between the time he took the oath and the time he announced an exploratory committee, which is what the email was citing). They were actually less specific on McCain’s length of service, citing his in years rather than days, and plainly stating that measuring them side by side was obviously no contest.

    So I guess I just don’t really see what’s missing. I’m curious to know though, because you’ve got me scratching my head.

  • Babs

    I don’t understand how you are a Democrat when you are against their platform. I could understand if you were Lieberman who just disagrees with the War but are a democrat down the middle but you don’t like a damn thing about a democrat lol

    “Obama has no idea how to fix these problems. His solution is to burden the taxpayers even further by making the government cover the fraudulent costs of health care in this country.”

    Well according to these Economist they like Obama over McCain.
    The Economist’s poll of economists
    Examining the candidates

    Oct 2nd 2008 | WASHINGTON, DC
    From The Economist print edition
    In our special report on the election we analyse the two candidates’ economic plans. Here, we ask professional economists to give us their views

    AS THE financial crisis pushes the economy back to the top of voters’ concerns, Barack Obama is starting to open up a clear lead over John McCain in the opinion polls. But among those who study economics for a living, Mr Obama’s lead is much more commanding. A survey of academic economists by The Economist finds the majority—at times by overwhelming margins—believe Mr Obama has the superior economic plan, a firmer grasp of economics and will appoint better economic advisers.

    Our survey is not, by any means, a scientific poll of all economists. We e-mailed a questionnaire to 683 research associates, all we could track down, of the National Bureau of Economic Research, America’s premier association of applied academic economists, though the NBER itself played no role in the survey. A total of 142 responded, of whom 46% identified themselves as Democrats, 10% as Republicans and 44% as neither. This skewed party breakdown may reflect academia’s Democratic tilt, or possibly Democrats’ greater propensity to respond. Still, even if we exclude respondents with a party identification, Mr Obama retains a strong edge—though the McCain campaign should be buoyed by the fact that 530 economists have signed a statement endorsing his plans.

    Does their opinion matter? Economics is just one of the many things the next president will have to worry about; voters still seem to prefer Mr McCain on foreign policy. And even on the economy, economists may not have the same priorities as the population at large. Arguably, what a president says about economics on the campaign trail is less important than how he responds to the unexpected challenges that inevitably arise once he is in office.

    That’s the rest of the article. There’s a lot more to it. goes into good detail

    I’ll go out and say Obama may not have an idea.
    But McCain doesn’t either.

  • EricF

    “I’m sure if there was a “” a conservative somewhere would be upset at the liberal bias of putting McCain’s name first.”

    [sarcasm]yeah and im sure if McCain had ties to known terrorists the msm would just ignore it. i mean they are all over Obamas shady dealings and associations right?[/sarcasm]

  • JD


    I have grown tired of you always sticking up for your little buddies on here.

    Did i not supply direct evidence of Barack’s Birth certificate? Was that an insult?

    Stop trying to be the mother to all the childish republicans here. This is an adult forum… not a kids playground.

    Now onto the Medicare, Medicade. Did I say I supported or did not support it? Did I say anything at all about my stanse? Or did you just assume?

    Firsty, I don’t know what the specifics are because McCain has not released them. So I didn’t make any statement other than he is looking to make cuts.

    Secondly, You clain I am paniced when you claim there is a trillion dollars to be saved in Medicare Medicade cuts. What kind of specifics is that?

    What fruad? How is McCain going to stop it? How much will it save?

    Can you answer all this? probably not because he has not come out with those answers.

    Don’t jump on me because you didn’t do your homework and are assuming that I didn’t do mine. There is no homework to do until McCain announces the cuts.

    Babs, They are turning you to the dark side of the republican force.

  • McCain does have ties to known terrorist and the MSM have not covered it at all.
    Ayers has been covered in the n.y. times 18 times and CNN has gone over it multiple times. It was all played out during the primaries. And this so called Liberal N.Y. times can’t be so liberal with a record like that. Goes to show you that the right will throw N.Y. times under the bus while ignoring their negative coverage of Obama as well.

    I think some people feel that all of Obama’s associations have to be covered the same way Rev Wright was covered. 24 hours a day 7 days a week for 2 months. So now they want Ayers to get the same play. One day short of 2 months and it means it got no coverage. It’s all laughable.

    Nice to derail off of the topic of the Economy though.

  • JD

    “Mr. Holtz-Eakin said the Medicare and Medicaid changes would improve the programs and eliminate fraud, but he didn’t detail where the cuts would come from. “It’s about giving them the benefit package that has been promised to them by law at lower cost,” he said.”

    AGAIN, McCain has not detailed what is going to be cut.

    My Opinion…

    This is dangerous ground considering alot of elderly people are on this program. They are going to be listening with sharp ears so McCain has to calm fears as well as outline what he is going to change and how much it will save.

    Current cost of Medicare, Medicade as of September 30th is around $457.5 billion. Not even close to a trillion like Babs was suggesting. A trillion dollar cut from Medicare, Medicade is called eleminating the programs.

  • EricF

    JD let me ask you a question. do you think someone who knows the economy and is a responsible person would say…

    “Subprime lending started off as a good idea”

    im not going to say who said this but just give me your thoughts lol.

  • EricF

    i bet the market rallys back 🙂

  • Deb

    Has anyone ever looked into Madeline Talbott and Obama’s relationship with her and ACORN? So many people want to blame this financial crisis on the republicans but why is it that Obama, only in the senate for 2 years, receives the second highest dollar amount from Fannie Mae? Not to mention Barney Frank D, MA) who in 1991 was involved with then senior executive, Herb Moses, of Fannie Mae. “Both Frank and Moses assured the Wall Street Journal in 1992 that they took pains to avoid any conflicts of interest. Critics, however, remain skeptical.”
    Frank was on the house banking committee voting on banking issues which included Fannie Mae. Their relationship was absolutely a conflict of interest.
    So when we want to point fingers I think everyone needs a few more fingers to point at everyone involved. The democrats have been the majority in congress for 2 years and haven’t done much of anything. Barney Frank has repeatedly said Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were ok. I also noticed how quick Pelosi pushed for the house to sign the bail out bill. Of course she didn’t want republicans involved in any part of writing the bill. If it doesn’t work she can blame the republicans and if it does work she can pat herself on the back. And how much pork did they add to this one?

  • JD

    EricF – “JD let me ask you a question. do you think someone who knows the economy and is a responsible person would say…“Subprime lending started off as a good idea”?”

    As usual EricF you put this in the wrong context. So to answer your question… It depends on what context this was made and the following statement.

    Since this is a lead in statement you would need the rest of the statement to make an informed judgement. Something you have no idea about.

    So let me fill you in on the rest of the statement.

    “Subprime lending started off as a good idea – helping Americans buy homes who couldn’t previously afford to. Financial institutions created new financial instruments that could securitize these loans, slice them into finer and finer risk categories and spread them out among investors around the country and around the world.

    In theory, this should have allowed mortgage lending to be less risky and more diversified. But as certain lenders and brokers began to see how much money could be made, they began to lower their standards. Some appraisers began inflating their estimates to get the deals done. Some borrowers started claiming income they didn’t have just to qualify for the loans, and some were engaging in irresponsible speculation. But many borrowers were tricked into glossing over the fine print. And ratings agencies began rating bundles of different kinds of these loans as low-risk even though they were very high-risk.

    Most everyone knew that some of these deals were just too good to be true, but all that money flowing in made it tempting to look the other way and ignore the unscrupulous practice of some bad actors

    And yet, time and again we were warned this could happen. Ned Gramlich, the former Fed governor who sadly passed away two weeks ago, wrote an entire book predicting this very situation. Repeated calls for better disclosure and stronger oversight were met with millions in mortgage industry lobbying. Far too many continued to put their own short-term gain ahead of what they knew the long-term consequences would be when those rates exploded.

    Those consequences are now clear: nearly 2.5 million homeowners could lose their homes. Millions more who had nothing to do with this could see the value of their own home decline – with some estimates projecting a cost of nearly $164 billion, primarily in lost home equity. The projected cost to investors is nearly $150 billion worldwide. And the impact on the housing market and wider economy has been so great that some economists are now predicting a possible recession – a prediction all of us hope does not come to pass.

    There are a number of lessons that we must learn from this going forward. We know that much of this could have been avoided if the market operated with more honesty and accountability. We also know we would have been far better off if there were greater transparency and more information had been available to the American people….”

    ***SO YES, I AGREE WITH THE STATEMENT when we look at it in the appropriate context. You should try this sometime Eric. To be honest, i will be impressed if you read through it all.

    So what are your thoughts on the rest of the quote? Are there parts you agree or disagree with? If so, what are they?

  • Babs

    *LOL* Glad to see I have the liberals stirred up this morning, you need to be.

    JD, I wasn’t defending anyone. I was shaming you, I don’t even remember who you were personally insulting this time, it’s always someone. So you insult me. Who cares.

    As to the Medicare, Medicaid issue you should read more carefully. I never said my opinion was even McCain’s policy. It was my opinion, and a darn smart one.

    ” Current cost of Medicare, Medicade as of September 30th is around $457.5 billion.” Per ????? Per forever? $457.5 billion is all we have ever or will ever spend? Per what, JD?

    Medicare and Medicaid is always dangerous ground, how many election cycles have you been through as an adult? It’s always an issue, always dangerous, and never fixed.

    Dreadsen, please tell me who McCain’s friends are that are known terrorists. Name them.

  • JD

    Babs – “Glad to see I have the liberals stirred up this morning”

    Babs, you always stir me up. 😉

    Babs – “JD, I wasn’t defending anyone. I was shaming you, I don’t even remember who you were personally insulting this time, it’s always someone. So you insult me. Who cares.”

    Hhhmmm, interesting. Lets see what you had to say.

    “There you go again, JD, with the personal insults. Eric has a right to his opinions. You have set yourself up as quite the elitist here.”

    That was both a defense for EricF and a sad attempt at shaming me. But you are right who cares… you memory seems to be short so lets move on.

    Babs – “As to the Medicare, Medicaid issue you should read more carefully. I never said my opinion was even McCain’s policy. It was my opinion, and a darn smart one.”

    Let do a quick recap of what your opinion was..”There could probably be TRILLIONS cut from the medicaid program, just by eliminating medicaid fraud from individuals perpetrated by a broken GOVERNMENT system.”

    First, there isn’t TRILLIONS to cut. Secondly, you asked me to do my homework when McCain has not released what he is going to cut. The other homework, I did, was find out what the cost of Medicare Medicade is… and I said where it was at as of September 30th.

    Needless to say it isn’t even close to 1 Trillion let alone multi-trillion level as you said. You might want to rethink the smart opion comment.

    Babs – “Current cost of Medicare, Medicade as of September 30th is around $457.5 billion. Per ????? Per forever? $457.5 billion is all we have ever or will ever spend? Per what, JD?”

    First, i thought this was fairly self-explanatory. It was a statement of a number as of roughly where cost of medicare, medicade is at as of September 30th for the year 2008.

    Secondly, 457.5 billion is where it is at as of now. I am sure it will go up as the year progresses. hence the reason why I put where it was at now.

    At the end of the year we can put what it cost for 2008. You see how it works?

    Babs – “Medicare and Medicaid is always dangerous ground… It’s always an issue, always dangerous, and never fixed.”

    Sounds like you are agreeing with me. SHOCKING!!!

  • Babs

    Aha! Per year, you stepped in your own words. So do we concern ourselves with only a year? Multiply your 457.8 billion by, oh, say let’s address the issue for the next FIVE years, and to hell with it after that. How much did you come up with, Mr. Smarty?

    You got me. I must’ve been defending Eric, I said his name.

    Now, how many election cycles did you say you’ve been through as an adult?

    How’s your job security this morning? You were pretty worried about it Friday. Did you get to save any of your fellow employees jobs?

  • marcus

    Why nobody sees this, is beyond me

  • JD

    I hear back on the jobs this afternoon as mentioned before, my job is secure.

    I have been through 4… this being my 5th election cycle.

    how did i step on my own words? I didn’t catch where you said we would save trillions in 10 years, 1 year, 50 years.

    But now that you use the 5 year mark lets do the math. you would have to cut at least 200 billion dollars a year from the program to reach 1 trillion i savings for 5 years.

    I think McCain is saying 1.3 trillion is savings over 10 years so it is about 100 billion reduction per year.

    If I am understanding you correctly. Instead of me trying to figure out where you stand, is there any way you could outline it? So there is no confusion.

    Like I said before. I would like to hear how and what he is going to cut. This is a hard topic and one that could be trouble if McCain does not answer it correctly. 100 billion a year is alot, not saying it can’t be done.

  • JD

    When is NATE going to start the Debate thread?

    Tomorrow is going to be on hell of a debate. Has anyone heard what is coming out of the McCain Campaign?

    Looks like McCain is looking to go after Obama full on. I do not see this next debate as being as civil as the last one.

  • Vote 4 Real

    ERICF: Just so that you can stop writing about the irrelevent, check out this website. It not only talks about the birth certifiate, but also shows a copy of it. Barak has been one of the most open cadidates around. If you have a problem with something let it be the issues and stop the groundless personal attacks.

    Annette: Didn’t McCain also vote for the deregulation of banks? As far as Obama being a radical, that is personal point of view. At one time, the existance of America was considered a radical point of view.

    What concerns me now is the fact that in this race there is just too much maddness and old heads thinking old. What I mean is that there are still too many people believing that McCain is right for this country at this day and time. The fact that he chose Palin as VP is enough for me. She debated like a robot, not like someone who genuinely felt what she was talking about. You have to look at her like she is the one running for president, because honestly McCain is just to dang on old. If you look at the difference between when Bill Clinton or either Bushs’ started in the office and what they looked like by the time they left, they were worn out and old. Now I ask you, what do you think McCain will look like by the time he is done, the Crypt Keeper? And what about Palin, God forbid anything happen to McCain and Palin steps into office she’ll ruin the gosh-darn country within the first month. People will ask what should we do about this… and she’ll say “Well, ya know, I’ll have to get back to you on that.” We really need to look at the big picture. Neither candidate is 100%, and both have made some dumb votes in senate. But that old school backwards way of thinking has got to go, and the name calling and character bashing has got to come to an end. That isn’t what leaders are suppose to be doing. I want to hear about the issues, not the barrage of insults on other people’s characters.

    And for all those who don’t want the government to be made to provide health coverage for your child. What would you do if you lost everything and what little job you could find makign $2000 a month disqualified your child from any medical assistance and yet you barely had enough to maintain. Would you want your child to be covered then? Stop being selfish and understand that no matter how rich you may think you are, it can all be gone in a minute, and you better pray someone is there to help you out anyway possible.

    I’m just curious, how many of you think that this whole “Bailout” I refuse to call it a rescue, is going to be a good thing in the long run? How many think that we won’t pay for this big time in the future?

  • JD

    Also, i just say that the new Oliver Stone Movie is coming out October 17th.

    The story of W. Bush.

    Is this being braught to theatres (Oct. 17th) at this criticle time as a political play by Holliwood? …only 30 days left till the election.

    If it paints a bad picture of George w. Bush, it could rehash all the bad feelings America has for Bush currently.

    Are there anythoughts on this?

  • SC

    It’s always fun to watch extremely biased people trying to make an argument based on the “facts”. As a result you end up with these entertaining but pointless discussions.(since nobody here would change their opinion)

    Here are a few facts for you.

    Fact: The US is going bankrupt. The reason is not Clinton or Bush (even though this guy accelerated things) but time. Time, Capitalism and the desire for the rich and powerful to stay that way. If you don’t understand what I am talking about just ask and I will elaborate.

    Fact: The way a government makes money is through taxes. I can’t quite comprehend how people in this country think that the national debt will be paid off by giving tax cuts.

    Fact: Global warming is well on it’s way. If you disagree, and the fact that the glaciers are retreating all over the planet at an enormous rate is not enough proof for you, then
    don’t expect me to waste any time trying to convince you.
    Nobody knows what the exact consequnces of global warming
    will be but one thing is certain; The economic ramifications of climate change will make the current economic conditions seem like a joke.

    Fact: Oil is neither an infinite nor a renewable resource. Prices will continue to go up so the question is: Do you prefer to endure the pain of switching the economy to renewable energy sources for a cost X or do you want to wait another 5-10 years and do the same thing for a cost of 1000*X (if at all possible, it may even be too late)

    Fact: Obama is a Democrat so his policies will cator more to the democrats

    Fact: McCain is a republican so his policies will cator more to the republicans

    So, enough with facts. Here is my opinion. It’s pretty much impossible to know how one will be as a president. You can have an idea; like for example the majority of people knew Bush would have been a bad president. Very few expected him to be this bad.
    We all agree that none of the two candidates will be able to keep all their promises.
    The question is which promises will they be able to keep?
    I personally think the most critical issues right now are Global Warming and Energy. And if we look at the left and the right views of the issue, it becomes obvious that it’s a higher priority for the Democrats.

    Bottom line. The joyride is over for the US. The years to come will be rough, regardless of who becomes president. The only question is; Will the US lead in changing the direction in which the world is currently going (following the footsteps of the USA) from “Consume & Waste” to “Conserve and Care”?

  • JD

    Don’t get to excited over that movie because Rev. Wright is supposed to have his book coming out this month! LOL!!

    That could be the equivalent of Obama’s acceptance speech getting derailed by the announcement of Palin!

    And being that it looks like he is actually OUT TO GET Obama there could be some atomic bomb material in there.

    Ha! i bet everyone forgot about that guy!
    McCain doesn’t even have to bring the guy up. When the book comes out he will bring himself up!

  • bdjnk

    Economic ideology of Obama and his father

  • EricF let’s hope. I will be watching the debate with great anticipation. If he wants to win he’ll take off the gloves. I did watch Hannity’s America and it scared the hell out of me. I really am fearful this man will be the next president, but as a Manchurian candidate and these corrupt
    people/organizations will be running the country. They have molded him into the “perfect candidate”, but really it’s all a front for these corrupt organizations.

    Annette, great informative post!

    Unfortunately Bush has ruined this presidential race for us with his recklessness in suggesting such a bill and not putting a stop to the corruption on capital hill. I want to know why we’re not seeing Barnie Franks, Chris Dodd and many others being prosecuted. Of course not, politicians are never held responsible for their actions, no matter how heinous the crime. Why is that? Why is it Americans allow this to continue happening. Last week Nancy Pelosi was found out that she had been paying her husband hundreds of thousands of dollars with tax payer money, it’s unreal. I say we invoke our second amendment right and storm capital hill with guns and pitch forks.

    Here’s a little disclaimer for the liberals on the site who will rip that comment apart, I DON”T GIVE A DAMN!!!

  • Babs

    I’m with you, CG. Holding our government officials accountable is something that hasn’t been done in too long. Dodd, Franks, and Pelosi should be impeached, or charged, or spanked, or all, whichever we can do. I’m from the 70’s – the years of protests when people really knew HOW to protest for a cause – not like the mutaations calling themselves Code Pink (what an embarrassment to women everywhere). I say storm the captitol and “make them famous”. But we can’t. So I’m trusting McCain and Palin – like I said the other day, I want them to bust into the White House like John Wayne, throw the fine china out the front door, and get serious about our country. Obama can sit on the lawn and sing Kumbaya with the china pieces.

    JD, yes, W. Bush is being brought out as a leftest satire of Bush. Already out is “American Carol”, a right wing movie produced to expose leftist radicals like Michael Moore. Everyone is in on the act.

    Also, JD, if you’re truly interested in McCain’s Health Care Plan (and I doubt that seriously), you can go here
    to see Obama’s claims against McCain’s plan refuted.

  • AC3

    Where were you(and your guns) Conservative Gal after the 2000 “election”.
    The corruption, recklessness and crimes performed by the Bush Administration cannot be matched by any other government in this country’s history.
    Now with that in mind even if you claim whatever you want about Obama don’t you think it’s fair to give the Democrats a chance? The Republicans already had their chance and look at the mess they created.
    Unless you think there was nothing wrong with Bush’s presidency in which case there is no hope for you.

  • Annette

    Vote 4 Real;
    McCain did not vote for the GLB. He did not vote (don’t know if he was not there or what but it was not a present vote either). Biden voted yes. I don’t know who you are referring to about the ‘radicals’. That wasn’t me. But now that you mention it, he is surrounded by radicals. Looks like it is working for him. Sooner or later it will come back to haunt him.
    Gosh Darn, sorry some of you don’t like how Palin talks and phrases things. It’s really sad that you can only insult the way she talks instead of finding some real issues to debate. Golly gee, as someone who lives in fly-over country I hear people talk like that all the time; no kiddin’. 😉
    The first time I accessed this site I was pleased with the way people wrote; with the way they stuck to the issues without insulting one another. I have discovered as a teacher and as a mother of teenagers that when someone doesn’t really have anything constructive to say, that is when they start belittling and insulting others. Like Thumper’s momma told him ‘If you can’t say somethin nice then don’t say nothin at all’.

    You are correct about the rich get richer. The economic thing for me bottom line is greed. What may have started out to be a good thing so that people could afford the American Dream of owning their own home (or nightmare as those of us who have purchased fixer-uppers call them) has turned into a disaster because lenders talked people into buying what they couldn’t afford. Connected to this entire mess is the credit card industry. After people purchased homes they couldn’t afford they turned around and bought things to furnish and decorate those homes on credit. What a MESS!!

    CG, Thanks, let me get my running shoes on.

  • Here’s a great article that states:
    3 in 5 voters: Boot every congressman
    check it out, it drives my point home.

  • Chris

    Why is the current economy pushing voters toward Obama? Doesn’t everyone know that the reason we are in the mess we are in are because of politics played by Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton (both Democrats)! When they signed into action legislation that pushed lenders to make loans that they knew would be “bad loans” the long term effect is what we are facing now. Also, the current can’t be the one to blame because bad loans were sold to people that knew they couldn’t afford it. If you want a restored economy, then vote Republican! We don’t see the long term effects on the economy until 6 – 8 years after a president leaves office. So, in short, Thanks Bill Clinton for the mess we are in. Vote Republican if you want to turn things around!

  • Conservative Gal

    Why don’t you run for office?

    We’d all support you! 🙂

  • I’m not old enough! Article II section 1 of the Constitution states that you must be 35 to run for President, Article I section 2 states you must be 30 to run for Senator, and according to Article I section 2 I just became old enough to run as a Congresswoman, can you guess my age?
    Besides, I don’t think they could handle me since I’m to the right of Rush and to the left of God 😉

  • C.G.

    Ron Paul has gotten elected and The green party has even had someone elected into the Senate.

    And i wasn’t talking about the presidency. But for congressional elections i think 60 or 70% of the population doesn’t even participate. So there’s lots of potential here.
    They are looking for younger people anyway. I think all of us want some younger people in there.
    Plus we need some conservatives who aren’t liberals with an (R) in front of their name!

  • “Doesn’t everyone know that the reason we are in the mess we are in are because of politics played by Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton (both Democrats)! When they signed into action legislation that pushed lenders to make loans that they knew would be “bad loans” the long term effect is what we are facing now.”

    George Bush and McCain also pushed for more loans for minorities.

    but since we keep hearing about this. Anyone care to copy and paste a link to for the details of this alleged bill?
    Because I keep seeing a case from both sides claiming it was the other side.

  • EricF
  • SC

    “…I’m to the right of Rush and to the left of God”

    I’m pretty sure God doesn’t care about politics otherwise I wouldn’t believe in Him.

    “We don’t see the long term effects on the economy until 6 – 8 years after a president leaves office”

    So in about 6-8 years from now there will be hell to pay then…

    Personally I’m neither a Clinton nor a Bush fan.
    The reason is because I am more interested in the foreign policy a US president applies because like a few Americans I am able to see the consequences of these disasterous policies. And both of them had horrible foreign policies. In fact for the most part the US foreign policy(since the time they decided to start intervening in world affairs)has been a disaster.
    The reason is because it is based on a simple but plain stupid premise; Fulfilling short term interests without consideration of the long term consequences of such injustices; And they would always “sell it” to the American people with the same paint “Justice & Freedom”.

    Interestingly enough it seems that this same policy of short term gradification at the expense of a sustainable long term plan is applied domestically too…

  • Kwaayesnama

    I wonder if John McCain’s son Andrew is one of his financial advisors?

    (AP) Regulators on September 7, 2008 shut down Silver State Bank, saying the Nevada bank failed because of losses on soured loans, mainly in commercial real estate and land development.

    It was the 11th failure this year of a federally insured bank.

    Nevada regulators closed Silver State and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. was appointed receiver of the bank, based in Henderson, Nev. It had $2 billion in assets and $1.7 billion in deposits as of June 30.

    Andrew K. McCain, a son of Republican presidential nominee John McCain, sat on the boards of Silver State Bank and of its parent, Silver State Bancorp, starting in February but resigned in July citing “personal reasons,” corporate filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission show. Andrew McCain also was a member of the bank’s audit committee, responsible for oversight of the company’s accounting.

  • Chris

    SC, why will there be hell to pay in 6 -8 years? We’re in the hell now!

  • Deb

    Even Obama’s top economic advisors see problems with Obama’s tax proposals.