Pressure builds on Palin and Biden prior to VP debate

I watched a McCain spokesperson running around the media this morning continually downplay Palin’s upcoming debate performance and point out the fact that Biden has “35 years of experience” in Washington to draw from. When asked if he was trying to manage expectations, the spokesperson promptly said he “doesn’t play that game” while he was in the middle of playing that game.

Note: The Vice Presidential debate will be on Thursday, October 2nd at 9pm eastern, 6pm pacific time on every network.

Truth be told, there is much pressure on both sides for Thursday’s upcoming VP debate. Gov. Sarah Palin has to prove she’s ready for prime time in the political arena and Sen. Joe Biden has to prove he can go 90 minutes without sounding condescending or making a major gaffe. Any vibes from Biden in which he sounds like he’s schooling the newcomer could be received badly by voters, or perhaps some women in general.

A report from Fox News about the pressure mounting on Gov. Sarah Palin:

Pressure is building on Sarah Palin to demonstrate her leadership credentials when she faces off in the vice presidential debate against Washington veteran Joe Biden next week, as Democrats and even some Republicans lob criticism of her latest interview performance.

Biden, too, spent the past week tripping up his own campaign — bungling facts on the Great Depression and even criticizing a Barack Obama ad.

Biden’s gaffe-prone ways, though, are well-documented and tempered somewhat by a perception that he is seasoned in national affairs, while Palin still is making her debut on the national campaign stage.

Her interview earlier this week with CBS News’ Katie Couric was scrutinized closely in the run-up to the vice presidential candidates’ one-time debate Thursday in St. Louis.

In some cases, the criticism runs beyond liberal blogs and tabloids. Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker wrote a scathing article in the National Review Online lamenting that she could no longer defend the first-term Alaska governor’s placement on the Republican presidential ticket.

“Palin’s recent interviews … have all revealed an attractive, earnest, confident candidate. Who Is Clearly Out Of Her League,” she wrote. “No one hates saying that more than I do.”

Parker said the interviews revealed “there’s not much content there,” and she called on Palin to leave the Republican ticket.

FOX News analyst Bernard Goldberg said some of the criticism Palin is fielding is unfair, since Biden’s gaffes regularly receive a pass.

“The preconceived notion about Joe Biden is that he’s an expert on foreign policy no matter how many mistakes he’s made,” he said.

But Goldberg said Palin’s latest interview did not “instill confidence” and Parker “may be right” in saying she’s out of her league.

Some people perform well under pressure, perhaps Palin will take this to her advantage. Of course, on the other hand, it could simply be too overwhelming to her feeling as if her performance will be much more closely scrutinized by all sides more so than Joe Biden or her running mate, John McCain.

There are a few scenarios for this vice presidential debate coming up on Thursday, October 2nd at 9PM ET.

First, Palin could do well along with Biden doing well. In this scenario, Palin holds her own with Biden and instills confidence in voters that she is ready to lead the count if necessary.

Second, Palin could falter on a question surrounding foreign policy and Biden could come off as the much more experienced candidate. If Biden leaves it at that, he will come away with the victory leaving voters questioning Palin’s experience and ability to lead.

Third, Palin could falter and Biden could gaffe himself into oblivion as he’s prone to do. If this is the case, no traction will be made for either candidate and it will be basically a tie.

Fourth, Palin or Biden could do well but one of them might hit a home run on something and come out as the clear victor.

Fifth, and finally, Palin could falter and Biden could go to hard at her over the issue. If this is the case, on some obscure foreign policy question, she’s likely to win a sympathy vote from people who may have given a similar answer to that question or be unfamiliar with it. Biden could overplay his hand and come off as arrogant or condescending.

  • Donna Hughes

    You mean it would be bad for Joe if he treated Palin in the same mocking and condescending manner that McCain treated Obama in the last debate?

    What have we, a double standard here? In other words it is OK if McCain belittles Obama but if Joe were to use even a hint of that with Palin the conservatives will cry “Foul”?

    I doubt very much that Joe Biden will be so crude with Palin, though if she tries to be provocative it would be unfair if Joe couldn’t respond in like if he chose to do so. I see no reason for her to be able to have her cake and eat it too. She has already been getting away with hiding out from the media. If she can’t stand the heat then perhaps she should go back to Alaska.

    However, I never saw Joe Biden say an unkind word to anyone in the presidential debates, except for perhaps to Rudy Giuliani. I don’t think he commits those slips of the tongue when he is focused in such a format either. Sorry folks.

  • IndiMinded

    We absolutely have a double standard Donna. I’m afraid benevolent sexism is alive and well in this country, and an experienced man attacking a younger woman just isn’t going to look good. I expect that’s why you rarely hear Biden attacking Palin.

    Of course benevolent sexism is so harsh because that sword has always cut both ways – those who would be offended to see Biden pick on Sarah Palin are offended because they see her as being so vulnerable. For someone running on a presidential ticket, being seen as an easy victim in never a good thing.

  • laurie

    can’t we have an even playing field? If one runs for a position then all are equal. Isn;t this what women have asked for? I am a woman of the 50s and I expect NO MORE than my (male) colleagues. Let Sarah and Joe take it on the chin but take it equally

  • Sarah just needs to answer quickly and not let greasy Joe intimidate her. What am I saying, it’s Sarah, Joe look out she’s coming for you!

  • susan

    *** Nuked ***

    Please watch your profanity, thanks!

  • susan

    Maybe all you women out there caring about Sarah Palin should be caring for her abandon family,particularly a handicapped child,I have never seen such greed for power since Hilary Clinton.Any women who supports Sarah Palin is guilty of child abuse.

  • susan

    No surprise,She has a 17 year old unmarried pregnant daughter! Go girl Go

  • Susan your obviously a disturbed individual who screams feminism.

    “Women Women, When your nation is completely bankrupt…(it was nuked b/c this susan has a filthy mouth)…It is not about gender but agenda, Michele Obama hears you but so does Barack, Grow up and burn your bra the next election.”

    Also quoting Susan: “Any women who supports Sarah Palin is guilty of child abuse.”

    You’ve got to be kidding me. This must be some kind of bipolar rant because in your first post you stated that women should be burning their bras. In your second post you stated that women should be home cooking. Then in your third post you stated that if a woman goes to work, she’s guilty of child abuse. What I find so funny is that a woman working, caring for a family, and getting equal opportunities of men is the feminist manifesto.

    Sarah Palin is advancing the rights of women as Geraldine Ferraro did, in the exact light. Take issue with Palin’s politics but you have absolutely no right at all to sit there and say she’s a bad mother or say that us women who support her should be accused of child abuse also.

    I’m really getting of people from foreign nations telling us Americans how we should vote as if their opinion matters for anything.

    And for goodness sake lady put a BRA on!

  • SnowCrystal

    Sarah Palin is not advancing the rights of women, if you ask MomsRising. Her office staff, refused to accept a petition from a coalition of women with children who do, indeed, want to “rise”–hence their name. They tried to hand-deliver a petition with thousands of names on it about family-friendly corporate policies, education, and child care.

    The Palin staff told them to mail it.

    Sarah is far too conservative to support working women with children. She’s throwing her own daughter into a marriage to preserve her image. She’s either recklessly endangered a child, or herself, if that last baby is really hers [personally, I don’t believe it].

    The issue is competence. Sarah may well be competent to be governor of Alaska, but even that is in question since the Troopergate scandal has been squelched by the McCain campaign. Remember Sarah was for this investigation before she was against it?

  • susan

    Actually,
    I am a women,certainly supportive of equal rights,I grew up in a single parent family,a mother raising six children alone and alot of help from the grace of god.What should we think about Americans decision,You elected Bush twice,what dicisions America makes is our business because we pay for your mistakes.Canada supplies America with 70% of your energy.Get your facts straight.

  • susan

    Crystal,you get it! I was almost sick to see her exploit the handicap child as a political stunt,Like Mc Cain,She will say or do anything to get elected.Vote wise Vote Obama,
    It would just be her luck that McCain won and suffered a Heart Attack,then Miss Alaska would be running what is left of America,People will be jumping out of windows!You are probably right about the Baby,I am sure the records have disappeared.

  • susan

    Also,I am glad someone else has Bi-Polar rant!

  • JD

    I thought this was interesting….

    “Palin will head to McCain’s Arizona ranch late Monday to start her intense debate prep with top campaign aides.”

    “Steve Schmidt and Rick Davis to join Palin in Philadelphia. They’re supposed to liberate Palin to go on the offensive as a combative conservative in the vice-presidential debate on Thursday”

    Looks like she is going to be taking a couple days to prep for the debate. Which is no surprise but I would like to remind some members on here what they had to say about Obama for spending a couple days to prepare for the debate.

    Babs – “It’s disquieting that Obama needs to “prepare” for days for a debate”

    I can’t say that I am against this move. McCain needs to get Palin to at least appear as an equal. Similarly as Obama was able to stand on his own against McCain.

    If this can not be done then the McCain is going to have to spend the next week doing damage control and put alot more pressure on the next presidential debate.

    Personally, I don’t think it can be done. Palin does well at rallies but has not proven herself knowledgeable on the issues. I think Katie Couric is still waiting for some answers from her on a couple of topics. I think Palin is going to get her “high heels” handed to her… In the most gentlemanly of a way, of course.

  • susan

    Excellent,She has over exposed herself,She may not even be re-elected in Alaska.I am a women and certainly a strong one,I would love to see a woman in the W/H,not her though,
    Like Matt Dainom says,” It is absurded”

  • susan

    Keep the faith,that a power stronger than anyone any being will elect Barack Obama! He is the re-birth of Dr MTK,America needs him,the world needs him,because the days ahead need encouragement,hope and belief,the things that help people in hard times,not McCain,by the way,his wife should re-think her hair,She looks like something that crawled out of a bar at 5 am.,Not surprising,her family owns a beer company.

  • Alex

    Dear Susan,

    With all due respect, please stop posting so many comments. I think your opinion on this subject is clear. Please show some respect to other posters and preserve your own image by avoiding repetitive posts.

    As to my own opinion, I believe Palin will do OK due to the preparation, but her lack of experience and knowledge will still be clear. As long as Joe Biden doesn’t lose it, he will emerge as a clear winner of this debate.

    Have a great day everyone.

  • jake

    There are large differences between gaffes and simply not knowing facts.
    How can you form an opinion if you don’t know the facts?
    And if you don’t have an opinion how can you make informed decisions where peoples lives/jobs/money are at stake?
    Mccain/Palin ticket is simply suicidal.Even if you disagree with Obama no sane person can possibly look at Mccain/Palin ticket objectively and come to the conclusion that this is the future.
    Listen to Mccains’ debate he says “WE WILL WIN THE WAR”.How many more years do you think the USA can survive economically waging this endless war?

  • Babs

    Wow, Cindy McCain should rethink her hair. How profound and mature. You’re really thinking on the important issues here, Susan. So Obama is the rebirth of “Dr. MTK”, hmmm, I assume you meant “MLK”, who – as I realize you don’t know – was a life long republican. A power stronger than anyone will elect Barach Obama. Would this be the light he referred to coming down saying you have to vote for Barack? Strange you keep repeating you’re a woman, I think I doubt that seriously now.

    JD, it WAS disquieting that Obama should have to prepare for days. He’s running for President, has been running for 2 years now, he should know what his policies are by now, shouldn’t he? No doubt Sarah needs some preparation. I’ve been given to understand this will be her first debate. I remember my first debate in 5th grade, and I doubt “because my Daddy said so” will win for her like it did me. Anyone who’s ever debated knows there are strategies to be used. Obama has already been to how many debates? 21 with Hillary, was it? Yes, it was disquieting he needed preparations on both counts. I would expect Sarah to need some coaching in the fine art. 😉

    There’s no way that Sarah can be perceived as an equal to Joe Biden. The many years of experience confirm that – the same way Obama can’t hope to look as experienced as McCain. She will have to take the honest route here, showing respect to Biden for his years of trench work.

    Biden, on the other hand, will look foolish if he tries to challenge her on experience. It will come off looking bully like, because we know going in she doesn’t have it. Of course, if the conversation turns to executive experience, the tables will turn, and Sarah will have the advantage. Biden’s never run a business, town, or state.

    I’d like to see her expound on some of the accusations that’s been made against her. Not the personal ones, she shouldn’t dignify those with answers. But the issues such as the “windfall profits tax” issue that she levied against the oil companies in Alaska. That was a strike against her with me until I read the tax structure of the state, then it was easily understood. I think we need to hear that from her. I’d also like to see Biden make a case against drilling in Alaska, especially ANWR, because I’d like to hear more of Sarah’s views on that, as I agree with her. Like I’ve said for weeks, when was the last time a hurricane hit Alaska?

    If Biden opts for a gotcha game with Sarah, he will lose. If he gaffes, he will lose. If he repeats something like Hillary would been a better candidate, he will lose. Actually, on many counts, Sarah could just stand there and let him beat himself – the more he talks, the more trouble he gets himself into.

    I think all Sarah has to do to win is show up, be herself, and not commit a gaffe. She doesn’t have to do anything else.

  • Ash

    personally, i disagree with you Susan. I think that McCain and Palin are the best choice for the country’s well being. (considering the choices) Of course there is the issue of drilling in Alaska, but the place they plan for future drilling sights is the vast frozen desert known as the Alaskan Tundra.

  • Babs

    Ash, I think anywhere in Alaska where there is a great abundance of oil is acceptable for drilling. To drill or not drill very much overlaps a national security issue. And if you think about it, national security is about more than terrorists. Looks at the damage and gas crisis we’re now enduring because of a hurricane – natural attack – on our rigs and refineries. We have to keep those undamaged and running in order to maintain oil production in this country. We have put the large majority of these is an area of the country that is often under attack. Alaska is not affected historically by such natural disasters. It only makes sense to expand drilling there instead of more offshore expansion, and a lot of that argument is national security. I’m a “drill, baby, drill” kinda gal, but think that Alaska should be the first hole we dig.

  • JD

    Babs,

    Don’t worry. I have a feeling you are going to be on here during and right after the debate doing Palin Damage control.

    That is my prediction. 🙂

    I can’t expect you to apologize for her performance or her complete lack of understanding of the issues but I will look forward to all the excuses you are going to be pulling out of your bags and all the independents that are going to be running over to Obama after this VP debate.

    Babs – “I think all Sarah has to do to win is show up, be herself, and not commit a gaffe.”

    Show up – McCain almost didn’t so yes this is important part for the republicans to get right.

    Be herself – Probably the worst thing she can do.

    Not commit a gaffe – Now you are talking.

    Lets be clear. The role of the Vice President is to be the second in command in case something happens to the president. So I will he holding her to the same standard as if she were at the top of the ticket.

  • Babs

    Well, JD, I don’t think you’ve seen me much on here since the debate Friday night or the bailout scenario, have you? Are you telling me you haven’t missed me?

    I’m to the point that I don’t think I have to defend any of them for anything. Since last week, I’ve seen almost 100 new posts on one thread here from posters we’ve never seen before, all with mindless rhetoric and talking points, with some personal insulting added in – not intelligent debate, more like the crap you find over on Yahoo Answers election board. I don’t have any desire to participate in gotcha comments from people who don’t even know the issues.

    We’ll see how it goes. I think I’m right, but we’ll see.

  • Felton

    Do you think McCain made a mistake picking Palin?

  • Babs

    If you’re asking me that question, Felton, no, I don’t think it was a mistake at all. Does she have all the experience and qualifications McCain himself has? No. But she has as much as Obama on the top of the other ticket, and she’s learning from the old dog every day. I don’t think dying was on McCain’s mind when he chose her, and I don’t think think it’s an issue. Just wishful thinking that it could be an issue on the part of some nervous opponants.

    Personally, I think Sarah brings a balance to the ticket in several ways. Age-youth, conservative-midstream, experienced – not so much, that kind of thing. I think, in all fairness, Obama’s choice of Biden brings the same thing to them, except they are both about the same in the liberal column, so more the age and experience difference for them. It’s just upside down from ticket to ticket, and that’s where voters will have to decide where they want the experience, at the top of the ticket or the bottom.

  • Babs, if memory serves me right, you were doing quite a bit of defending of Sarah Palin in recent days, perhaps we should go back to the Katie Couric interview post?

  • Bruce

    Lets all be very realistic on what Palin would be asked to really do as a Vice President. She will defiantly be asked much tougher questions from other world leaders and diplomats, that to be honest most of which don’t like us to much. If the Couric interview and the several other blunders with easy questions stump her. What do you honestly think these world leaders are going to see? You die hard Repubs trip me out. Can’t even come out of the far right long enough to actually say Yeah McCain you picked wrong on this one. So I say to Biden, She took the gloves off at the RNC and on the trail. NO KID GLOVES! I don’t give a damn about people that would say “Oh he’s being mean to a woman”. That would be clearly a biased sexist opinion. She is in the big leagues now trying to play ball, so if she gets hit “Alls fair in love and war”

  • And if Palin or Biden make a mistake on Thursday, who cares? This election is too important to get caught up in inconsequential details. Obviously, the future of our country is at stake — we can get it right this time, or we can possibly wait another 4-8 years and let the derailment fester. Obama seems like a fine, accomplished man. We know Biden is. But let’s not get silly about this — McCain’s pick of Palin was brilliant political strategy. What’s left to ponder is whether enough white people will be able to think of the country first and vote for a black man.

  • Babs

    Michael, I have no problem defending Sarah. But it’s exhaustive with so many absolutely inane remarks being said about her having nothing to do with politics. So let folks think what they will, I’m Sarah’s supporter, not her keeper. The argument is the same old thing, over and over. I’ve stated my opinion on the matter, and it stands.

    NatetheGrate, I’ll think of the country first, and I won’t vote for a black man simply because he’s black. This is an old and ignorant argument that brings nothing to the table.

  • Bruce

    Off topic,

    Just In: thanks to the House Republicans flopping on the Bill the DOW TANKED.

    And Good Mornin Babs 🙂

  • Babs

    Hi, Bruce. 🙂

    The bill tanked, but look at the facts. More than 90 democrats voted nay. The democrats depended on the republicans to pass it, the dems could have passed it alone. Had they really been serious about the bill, they would have passed it, or at the very least they would have thrown Pelosi and her big mouth in the cloak room and got on with it.

    I’m not happy about this. I don’t want the bill on principal, but I don’t want to lose my retirement on practicality either, and 80% of that is in the stock market and mutual funds. So this subject takes priority with me today. I don’t know if I’m happy that it didn’t pass. The market dropped significantly, but I’ve been there before. It wasn’t doomsday. In fact it’s up from the low it hit while the vote was being counted, and it was due for correction.

    We’ll see how this plays out.

  • JD

    Babs – “Are you telling me you haven’t missed me?”

    Of Course I have missed you. In fact, I am a little nervous on what will happen with our relationship after November…

    Will it flower or wither?

    Babs – “The argument is the same old thing, over and over. I’ve stated my opinion on the matter, and it stands.”

    I think all the regulars have done this but we still keep talking. lol.

    It isn’t my fault that I like the sound of my voice, is it?

  • Bruce

    Babs,

    I think we all stand here today as bipartisan americans as ever on this. God help us all

  • Babs

    Bruce, amen. So the market closed with a record point drop, but it’s far from the record percentage drop, so we slide for another day. 7% is a big drop, but nowhere near the 25% in 1987.

    It was interesting today that oil dropped over $10 a barrel. The Donald seems to think if the government doesn’t do the bailout oil will drop out the bottom and the economy will eventually correct itself. I’ve heard a lot of analysts say the same thing. We may find out the hard way whether they’re right or not. 52% of US citizens polled are saying no deal still, and many congressmen intend to vote with their constituents, which is what we elect them to do.

  • Bruce,

    It is our congressmen and congresswomen’s jobs to speak for their constitutes, is it not? Capital hill has been flooded for the past week of angry voters weighing in on this so-called bill. I don’t think you can blame it on Republicans when 20 to 1 phone calls to congressional offices are angry voters voicing concern and urging their representatives not to pass the bill.

    Keep in mind, a whopping 90 Democrats voted NO as well. As much as Pelosi would like us to believe this is a bipartisan effort, she went on an angry rant today on the floor of the congress railing against Bush and his administration right before the vote. Now personally I think we should send Bush and his cronies packing but what I find astonishing is that after she spoke, 12 Republicans changed their minds based on her childish ranting about the Republicans and Bush. It’s ridiculous that these politicians cannot put aside political differences just come together with a simple “Yay” or “Nay” on the issue. Personally I feel that it is their jobs to listen to their constituents and the majority is screaming NO on the bailout bill of the $700 billion magnitude.

    JD,

    I don’t think you’ll have to worry about your relationship with Babs withering, I may be letting the cat out of the bag here but I do believe Nate will be continuing the political forum as You Decide Politics come 2009.

    Babs, thanks for coming to Sarah’s defense today. I will never get over how people from other countries will tell us how to vote on our presidential candidate as if they were paying our taxes. I understand that whoever is president of the United States will affect their relationship with their respective country, however, we as American citizens are the ones who pull the lever and live with their domestic policies.

  • Babs

    CG, have you picked up your copy of “Sarah” yet? I got it last week, it’s really good. And while going through WalMart magazine and book section, and the grocery stores, I’m still turning over magazines. It’s become a ritual. 😉

  • Thanks CG, for pointing out that people from other countries don’t matter. Just as a matter of interest, because YOUR country has failed in sorting out the bailout, MY country’s sharemarket has dropped an instant 5% in its value.

    But hey, screw the rest of the world.

  • Babs, Nate is so embarrassed to even go into a grocery store with me these days. I flip anything that is disrespectful to Sarah and her family, mostly b/c I don’t want to look at it but also b/c I’m just fed up. Nate will tell you that it’s becoming an obsession of mine to “hit and flip”.
    I do not have the latest copy of Sarah, what’s the publication, I’ll run out later and pick one up, maybe I’ll even sit at the local Starbucks and read it just to tick of the liberals, after I have my order in hand of course.

  • Pudding cut the Crap! Americans are not allowed to vote in your election. I’ll tell you what I tell my doggie when she begs for food, “You don’t offer mommy any of your food, so why should mommy offer puppy any of her food?”. The same applies to this conversation.

  • I think it’s you that needs to cut the crap CG, I thought you were intelligent, intelligent enough to at least grasp the enormity of what happens in America affects the rest of the world. But I’m guessing you really don’t give two craps about the rest of the world, well that’s quite sad to be honest.

  • susan

    Well,I will explain to you why other countries are concerned because your politics and choices have not only bankrupt America but the world too,Why don`t you and Sarah go back to school.Think about heat this winter,THINK CANADA

  • Bruce

    Im not trying to sound condescending to Paln at all. Since her announcement as the pick i have Objectively listened to everything she said trying to see how she would help our country. I am truly scared to death to think that she would be sitting across the desk from ANY high level diplomats/ foreign leaders. If she can’t handle Couric honestly how would these world leaders look at us then? Due to Bush’s diminishing world respect and the rise of anti American powers. This would be the person best suited for this job? *shiver* I am saying nothing bad about her as a person just saying that to be dead honest here, McCain had a large handful of very actually qualified candidates and he chosen Palin. She is out of her league and it shows.

  • Capitalist Pig

    To nzpudding and susan, take your preaching to Americans about what we should do with our country and kindly shove it somewhere.

    You are only too eager to spend my money by asking me to support some piece of crap $700 billion bailout legislation. You don’t pay taxes in America, you wouldn’t be responsible for the bill, my grandchildren would be so unless you are going to begin sending checks to the American goverment to pay back this $700 billion, you can shut the hell up and stop badgering Americans about what they need to do.

    Stop putting my money where your mouth is. I didn’t make a subprime loan, I didn’t take out a subprime loan, I have absolutely nothing to do with this problem so please, get off your foreign high horse and stop pretending like you have the right to tell me to spend my money bailing out someone who did make a bad subprime loan or took out a bad subprime loan.

    I pay my bills, I pay my taxes, and I don’t need some foreigner’s advice on our domestic economic issues which concern my grandchildren’s bottom line. Stop acting like you are “holier than thou” trying to school Americans on why they should care what you think.

    What the hell is wrong with people that they believe they have any say over my check book?

    susan, you’re just insane and have no clue what you’re talking about. You’re ranting like you just got out of the asylum, did you miss some medication? Canada will do what the United States tells it to do, you need us more than we need you, news flash.

    nzpudding, I value your opinion on the politics of New Zealand. Last time I checked, it isn’t New Zealand taxpayers who will be on the hook for this bailout. If you are on the hook with regard to the tax burden, then you might have the right to an opinion. Until that happens, please refrain from trying to educate me, it’s making people less intelligent reading your posts.

    Get a clue! America isn’t going bankrupt. Loans to people who can pay them back are still being made, no big deal. You foreigners have no clue because you buy into the political propoganda. I went do dinner tonight and, as expected, the place was packed just like every other retail outlet. The sky isn’t falling and people are fine.

  • Oh no! Canada might be mad at us, I’m shaking in fear. The only thing susan doesn’t realize is that if Canada decides to stop selling us “heat” or whatever she’s talking about, Canada is the one that loses! There will be a dozen other countries waiting in line or we’ll just provide our own, it’s called the free market, check Economics 101. Canada can’t afford to stop selling us anything as their economy would tank. Thankfully susan isn’t running the Canadian economic system or they’d be bankrupt already.

    nzpudding: “I thought you were intelligent, intelligent enough to at least grasp the enormity of what happens in America affects the rest of the world.”

    See, there’s the foreigner arrogance. nzpudding, I wish I could write your name in instead of Obama or McCain, you have the intellect needed to run America… into the ground!

    The most compelling aspect of both your arguments, if there is anything, is that both of them are so afraid of how America will vote in this election. What does that tell us about inferior countries? Why are they not more confident in their own countries and their own political systems? Where is this faith that they keep speaking of?

    capitalist pig, thanks for having my back on this one, absolutely love the name! Welcome to the site, pull up a chair!

  • JD

    Capitalist Pig – “To nzpudding and susan, take your preaching to Americans about what we should do with our country and kindly shove it somewhere”

    Conservative Gal – “Oh no! Canada might be mad at us, I’m shaking in fear.”

    You have to say that you two are really showing your character here. In fact, it is kind of Bush like and so it goes with no suprise that you two act like this to other people in other countries.

    Can they Vote? No

    Do they Pay US Taxes? No

    Do they have an opinion? Yes

    Are their opinions well founded and rational? nzpudding = Yes, Susan = not so much.

    Why is this notion of respect applicable to Americans and other countries? Does the US not lik Putin? Are we not vocal about it? Do we pay russian Taxes? Do we vote in Russia? But do will still have an opinion?

    Bush is Democracy’s Putin and if you haven’t noticed the world has an opinion much like we do with leaders of other countries we don’t like. I don’t think people from other countries cared when it was Clinton, Reagan, or Carter.

    So ultimately Babs, Conservative Girl, Stalin, OS, Capitalist Pig, you all have only to look in the mirror for the worlds interest in the US because you all elected the Boob who is in office now.

    I have no doubt that you will not see the corilation but it only proves that you all probably, like Palin, have never traveled out side of the US other than a week trip to Mexico or Canada or anywhere else for that matter.

    Ironically, I pay taxes and am registered to vote which meets all your requirements but you don’t listen to me either. The truth is your differences with other people in other countries is not that they are not from here but that they have a different view than you.

  • JD

    Palin, McCain interview with Couric

    http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4487886n

    Daddy McCain was able to couch here through.

  • Capitalist Pig

    Only speaking for myself here.

    Responding to JD: “I have no doubt that you will not see the corilation but it only proves that you all probably, like Palin, have never traveled out side of the US other than a week trip to Mexico or Canada or anywhere else for that matter.”

    Don’t presume to know anything about me. I have traveled extensively in Europe several times. I have traveled to South America several times. I have spent time for business in Canada. I did more traveling by the age of 10 than you have probably done in your entire life.

    What does that have to do with anything? Are you implying that since I have traveled extensively outside the United States that I should have a different opinion? What a joke.

    JD, you obviously don’t listen to me either so please, don’t act like it is I who is closed-minded.

    Responding to this: “The truth is your differences with other people in other countries is not that they are not from here but that they have a different view than you.”

    Entirely not true. I am just sick and tired of reading foreigners badgering Americans about how they should vote or what legislation they should support. JD, you have every right to complain about it, this actually effects you so argue with me, that’s fine.

    I respect nzpudding and susan, I just don’t appreciate being lectured that I should support a $700 billion bailout when the people lecturing me won’t put out a dime for it. Please, tell me you agree with that?

    People act as if American taxpayers don’t matter for crap, that their wallets are open to the world. Sorry, my wallet is closed so look elsewhere and don’t lecture me about it and we’ll all get along.

    I’ve said my piece, I am back to lurking on this board.

    Good day.

  • It’s funny that you hold someone’s opinion that is from a foreign nation so close b/c they align with your political views, but you attack people who have yet to comment in this thread such as Stalin and O_S, talk about showing your true colors, this was at best shallow. However it follows the typical liberal agenda.

    As for this whole Russian spiel, both nzpudding and susan come from countries that in the last 100 years have not had a leader who has threatened the United States’ security. Do we really have to get into why Russia’s dictator of a leader is important to the US? Last time I checked, neither Canada nor New Zealand were threats to the United States. The other issue is that I’m not telling Russian citizens what they should support or who they should vote for, completely different situation entirely.

  • I’m guessing there’s no mirrors in your house CG when you’re talking about being shallow?

    The arrogance of people like you and Capitalist Pig is a reason why America isn’t favoured so well in the world right now. Which is a real shame, as there are plenty of really nice unselfish Americans who want to make their country and the world a better place.

    Ah well, a typical conservative I’m in it for myself attitude I suppose. I’ll move on to someone who makes sense.

  • JD

    Capitalist Pig – “Don’t presume to know anything about me. I have traveled extensively in Europe several times. I have traveled to South America several times. I have spent time for business in Canada. I did more traveling by the age of 10 than you have probably done in your entire life.”

    Not to insult your intelligence but let me point a couple things out to you because as I pointed out previously, i didn’t think you could understand but I didn’t realize you don’t know how to read.

    Firstly – I don’t presume to know exactly about you nor am I able to verify the load of garbage you are dropping in here. So let me go back to what I said.

    “you all ****probably****, like Palin, have never traveled out side of the US ”

    Did I not say Probably? No, No, don’t avoid the question… Did I?

    I think it is time for an English lesson. Lets look up what probably means.

    Def. of probably – Most likely but without certainty.

    So no, I don’t presume to know. I was simply saying most likely but without certainty that you have not traveled outside of this country. Unfortunately, i am going to have to take your word for this even though you come across as a histaricle little girl driven soley by her emotions without any form or reason but maybe you are just looking for someone to cry to.

    Secondly, When you tell some one not to presume about you, it goes without saying that you should not do what you don’t want done to you. However, after your rant you say that you have done more travel then I have by the age of 10.

    Wait… is that presuming? Conservative Pig… you live up to you name. You are just like what it wrong with this bailout. You want to be treated better then you treat others. Just understand that you deserve a bitc@# slap so just let the sting set in and deal with it.

    Republican’s are suppose to be the tough ones but you complain the most. I swear you are just liberals with little elephants in your pants so you try to act tough. No wonder you are apart of the NRA…..OOOPPS… Am I presuming again. lol.

    conservative Pig – “What does that have to do with anything? Are you implying that since I have traveled extensively outside the United States that I should have a different opinion?”

    God no, you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer but the good news is you don’t have to worry about cutting yourself or others. I simply point out that you of all people should understand that people all over the world have an opinion.

    Does the united states believe in the right to free speech? Let me guess, you don’t want to answer that either. The answer is “YES” and it isn’t limited to just Americans. The prime minister of England can say what he wants and so can other countries citizens.

    The problem is that you don’t realize that you don’t have to listen. You can put you head back in the sand where it has been for the last 8 years.

    Conservative Pig – “you obviously don’t listen to me either so please, don’t act like it is I who is closed-minded.”

    Was I the one telling NZpudding to stick it because he is from another country…

    Think about it… come on… think some more…

    No, i didn’t so don’t lump me in with you. You are right that i don’t agree with you on many things but I have not told you have no right to an opinion. To say that, is being close-minded and so you qualify conservative pig.

    Conservative Pig – “Entirely not true. I am just sick and tired of reading foreigners badgering Americans about how they should vote or what legislation they should support. JD, you have every right to complain about it, this actually effects you so argue with me, that’s fine.”

    Have they said anything different than what other “American” (in my best Bush voice) have said? No, they haven’t. So why use the argument that they are from another country if you wouldn’t use that argument against a fellow American?

    Conservative Pig – “I respect nzpudding and susan, I just don’t appreciate being lectured that I should support a $700 billion bailout when the people lecturing me won’t put out a dime for it. Please, tell me you agree with that?”

    So is that what you call respect, CP? You respect them but don’t want to listen to them. I don’t know where you were raised but listening to other people is respect. So, NO, I don’t agree with you. NZpudding has not made any statements, on the issues, that I or others would not make.

    But I do agree that he is from another country… Rest assured that we have that in common.

    Conservative Pig – “People act as if American taxpayers don’t matter for crap, that their wallets are open to the world. Sorry, my wallet is closed so look elsewhere and don’t lecture me about it and we’ll all get along.”

    When did I suggest that I want to or need to get along with you. Let me explain how this works… You have an opinion and I may differ from you. The problem is that when you disagree with me, you want me to “listen” to what you have to say. I think it is called respect… you want me to respect what you have to say.

    I agree that you don’t want to you wallet open to the world. That is your stanse. Thanks for making it… finally.

    Conservative Pig – “I’ve said my piece, I am back to lurking on this board.”

    Thank you.

    Now on to Conservative Gal…

    CG – “It’s funny that you hold someone’s opinion that is from a foreign nation so close b/c they align with your political views, but you attack people who have yet to comment in this thread such as Stalin and O_S, talk about showing your true colors, this was at best shallow. However it follows the typical liberal agenda.”

    Isn’t if funny how we get along with people who are like minded as us… interesting isn’t it. lol. haha… funny.

    Seriously though, I didn’t attack but brought up Stalin and O_S because I have and they do talk on this site. But you are right maybe not this thread. What does that have to do with it. Do I have to wait for you to talk on all the threads before I can bring you up?

    You of all people know this site is divided between Liberals (as you call them) and conservatives (as you call yourself).

    That is why you and Babs get along so well… who else is apart of that group. Oh! Stalin and O_S.

    None the less, you (CG) get special privileges since you know Nate.

  • JD

    Wow… that was long!!! I am tired, now. 🙁

  • JD

    Back on the issues of this thread… sorry for the distraction…

    New Marist Poll finds voters believe the Democrat will edge out his opponent Thursday and display a better understanding of the issues.

    But most think Palin will be more likeable, including 42% of Democrats. Neither has a favorability rating above 50%.

  • Big Poppa

    George W. Bush was elected President twice with obviously very little knowledge of foreign policy (or knowledge of much else for that matter). Do you really think the V.P. candidate’s lack of foreign policy is really going to make that big of difference to the voters? McCain’s experience and knowledge covers for Palin’s lack of, just as Biden’s experience covers Obama’s lack of.

  • Babs

    JD, you are correct. Listening to other people is respect. Continually driving them away with personal insults because of what you hear is disrespect. Be careful you don’t look partisan in your attacks, you’ll upset Michael.

    CG, the book “Sarah, How a Hockey Mom turned the political establishment upside down” by Kaylene Johnson, is the one that has been advertised for a while, but I thought the debut on shelves was Oct. 3rd. While in WalMart last week flipping magazines, there it was on the shelf right next to “Obama Nation”, which I was spreading about all over the shelves. Paperback, $10.94, cheap at twice the price. Tindall House Publishers. It’s a look at Sarah through her life, and her rise in politics. I would give you a synopsis, but again, Michael might call me partisan. Go get it. 😉

  • JD

    Babs – “Continually driving them away with personal insults because of what you hear is disrespect”

    Babs, you know I prefer to stick to the issues but holding people accountable to what they say is not disrespect.

    You know I like to hold you too….

    accountable that is. 🙂

    Still, I might have gotten worked up. It erks me that members on here would say people from around the world don’t matter when in other threads they are agreeing with them.

    I.E. Matey from the UK goes on a rant against Democrats and CG says it is a breath of fresh air but when NZPudding from New Zealand says something against Republicans CG says people from other nations have no right to say anything.

    I do not agree with Matey but no American should be telling Matey to shut up and stick it because he is from the UK.

    The stick it philosophy only works in the sack and fails miserably as a foreign policy and we have the 8 years to prove this.

    **** BACK TO THE THREAD*****

    ABC News/WashPost POLL:

    Who is mainly responsible for the defeat of the financial rescue?

    Republicans 44, Democrats 21

    Do you oppose or favor the bill?

    Oppose 47, Favor 45

    A majority say they’re concerned the failure could worsen the economic downturn.

    Conducted Monday evening; error margin 5 points.

    http://abcnews.go.com/images/PollingUnit/1074a1Economy.pdf

  • Babs

    I think the bottom line in asking who is to blame for the rescue bill defeat – it’s all of us, and I include the millions of constiuents who bombarded their congressmen demanding they say no. The lawmakers did what they were elected to do by voting their constinuency, but they didn’t do what they were elected to do by pointing fingers and laying blame instead of educating constiuents to the fall out that effects us all by voting no. This is what has to happen before the next vote. Terming it a “bail-out” was a mistake, because it insinuates we’re bailing out the fat cats and crooks alone. In fact, we’re bailing out our own selves FROM the mess the fat cats and crooks have been allowed to get us into.

    The stock market lost over a TRILLION dollars yesterday. That’s twice the $700 billion figure. Do the math.

    I would still prefer some more tweaking to the bill, but having said that, some sort of shore up has to happen. After it does, I’ll be the first to step up and start pointing fingers and laying blame. There’s a lot to go around, and some questions about the original draft I still want answers to.

    Personally, I say that if we are to buy up the bad paper, we should also force a buy up of an equal amount of good paper – THAT would more insure us of getting our money back and possibly a profit.

  • “None the less, you (CG) get special privileges since you know Nate.”

    JD, please let me in on the “special privileges” because I don’t appreciate allegations like that as it promotes distrust on the site.

    If you’re speaking of Conservative Gal writing commentaries, then yes, she writes regular commentaries as does Michael. You or anyone else is invited to submit guest commentaries as well.

  • Stalin

    JD

    Your poll regarding who’s fault the crisis is and whether they support the current bill is pointless. This mess dates back more than 10 years and involves so many people, there is no way the average American can unravel it and assign blame. Unfortunately in politics perception is fact. Since the liberal media is in the business of painting perception for us, I’m not surprised at the results of that poll.

  • JD, I don’t know where to start. You’re the one who needs to be slapped and your mouth washed out with soap by inferring that I receive special privileges because I know Nate. I’m not sure if that was just an insult or if there was some sexism added to the mix. First of all when have I ever needed Nate to bail me out on this site, never. Second, when have I ever wrote a commentary without backing my argument with factual citation and information? You really are looking like the democratic party mascot at the moment. You sank to a new low implying that I received special privileges because I’m Nate’s wife, like I have no identity. This is America, not a foreign land were the wife’s are solely identified by there husbands, you must of forgot do to the fact that your such a world traveler.

    I expect to be treated like any other poster or member of this site and up until this moment, I had been.

  • JD

    lol. I feel like the guy who angered god!!!

    CG – “Babs, Nate is so embarrassed to even go into a grocery store with me these days. I flip anything that is disrespectful to Sarah and her family, mostly b/c I don’t want to look at it but also b/c I’m just fed up. Nate will tell you that it’s becoming an obsession of mine to “hit and flip”

    I thought CG was suggesting that she knows Nate. Now i know she is married to Nate.

    Nate – “JD, please let me in on the “special privileges” because I don’t appreciate allegations like that as it promotes distrust on the site.”

    Special Privileges = Since I like (Nate) and your great site ( 🙂 ) … I am not going to go on a long talk like i did against Matey and Conservative Pig with Conservative Gal. Mostly it was a statement of respect with a bit of a joke in it.

    By the way, I wouldn’t expect Nate to bail anyone out. He has not shown himself to be as such. Conservative Gal, is more than capable to carry on a debate with out him. And I look forward to that debate.

    If that is offensive… then Flame on Flamers!!!

    I kiss god’s feet and ask for his.hers.its forgiveness!

    Nate – “You or anyone else is invited to submit guest commentaries as well.”

    My first commentary is going to be about “Political Correctness and how to win friends”

  • JD,

    Please, don’t hold back on my account. You are forgiven for your indiscretions. Now please remit payment to me for a pardon. 🙂

    Email your commentary to Michael, he’s the Commentary Managing Editor. He’s doing a bit of traveling for now but he’ll forward it to me for posting if he thinks it’s kosher.

    Perhaps Capitalist Pig will grace me with a commentary as well. Though I doubt that possibility greatly.

  • JD

    Nate – “Please, don’t hold back on my account.”

    Your word is commandment.

    Conservative Gal – “I expect to be treated like any other poster or member of this site and up until this moment, I had been.”

    no problem!! (insert playfull “a$$ pinch” here) 🙂

    Oh, I learned how to do that in my travels, CG.

  • Steve O.

    Maybe if I wasn’t involved in politics or maybe if I wasn’t voting I could look at this situation with an unbiased opinion. I do not think I have a biased opinion on the matter.

    I give credit where credit is due and I think that John McCain and Barack Obama did well during the debate. There were times when I thought that McCain was dismissive of Obama and does not have any real respect for him. It seems to be on a personal level. Obama stayed calm about it and went back at him and started to get personal with him.

    John McCain seems to take chances in his campaign and that means he will take these same gambles if he was in office. Every decision he has made he has to go back and fix it. He recently chaperoned Sarah Palin on another Katie Couric interview. That is probably because he did not want her to mess up again. I can see through the non-sense and i am telling everyone it is a game on his part.

    Barack Obama’s message of change is so strong that John McCain is starting to use it. Barack Obama should take a bow and let McCain and Sarah Palin campaign for him. It is easy for McCcain to smear Obama when he is not there but during the debate he had no choice but to get his facts straight and not lie. He tried to but it got thrown back in his face.

    Please everyone look at both candidates and realize they both have flaws and may make mistakes. Its time to look at who has the least amoutn of flaws. The McCain-Palin ticket is 4 more years of the same, uneducated guesses, and a step back for women who are pro-choice. I have made my decision adn that decision is change we can believe in and not more of Washington nonsense. Thank you for reading my post.

  • Alright so the playing field is leveled! It’s all out in the open and all is well in the world. I didn’t realize that you were unaware that I am Nate’s Wife. All is forgiven and now I must go and make my gorgeous husband some dinner.

    P.S JD, watch who’s theoretical behind you pinch, mine is spoken for 🙂 by you know who!…LOL

  • It seems JD and I have similar views but what I find interesting is the fact that it appears from JD’s posts we’ve both done extensive travelling.

    I’m ex-military who’s originally from Britain. I’ve lived in Germany, France, Canada and now live in New Zealand. I’ve travelled all over America, Europe, Asia and parts of Africa.

    I could be completely wrong here but perhaps those who’ve travelled the world has a different view of it than those who don’t or haven’t. Their mindset isn’t focussed on just what is around them and their own country but they can see the bigger picture and America’s place in the world more clearly.

    There’s no doubt that America’s standing in the world has plummetted under George Bush and isn’t it true that prior to becoming President he hadn’t been outside of the US? Maybe there is some link there, who knows.

    What I do know is that to dismiss posters opinions just because they don’t live in America isn’t really a good way forward. America is supposed to be the leader of the free world, but unless you actually live outside in that free world then you don’t fully understand and you can’t fully appreciate what impact decisions made in America affect other countries.

    The upcoming elections and the collapse of Freddie, Fannie, AIG etc etc etc and the bailout will affect if it hasn’t already affected everyone globally.

    This is why I post here, because what happens in America affects me, even though I’m not American or live in America.

  • JD

    Nzpudding,

    Most of my long stay travels were done when I was in college and taking 3 month trips to different countries. However, I am now down to a couple weeks here and there(I have to work now days 🙁 ) to visit my brother in Townsville Australia, Friends in Switzerland, Germany, Estonia, Thailand and a trip to South Africa next year, in the works.

    Having spent extended time in countries when I was younger (I didn’t have any money… just enough for the ticket and hostel stay) I was forced to mingle with real people in different countries and it taught me, like it teaches anyone who does this kind of traveling, that people are not so different.

    We all have our favorite Pub, we all hope for better days, we all live out our lives in purpose, and take what victories we can.

    Here is one of my favorite quotes that sums it up for me:

    “When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the “policies” he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and mastered.

    We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force.

    We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of others. We must admit in ourselves that our own children’s future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.

    But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can. ” – RFK

    In closing,

    There are a lot of Americans who do not travel outside of their country and if they do Canada and Mexico may be it. I have found this to be no different than in other countries.

    The united states is the size of Europe, however, each of our states do not speak a different language. The amount of time it take to go from London to Paris is the equivalent of maybe a trip from Boston to Philadelphia.

    When you ask Americans if they have traveled, I have found it helpful to look at the states they have been to. California and New York is as different as England and France but they are united under one country.

    This does not mean that I don’t think Americans should take the time to travel to Europe, Asia, South America, Africa, and so on. Mostly I point out that our weekend trips cannot be to France like it can be if you live in Europe but nothing can substitute the experience you have when you step on foreign soil and you are the foreigner, not a tourist… this should be the goal of all Americans.

    More importantly, if you are running for the VP of the United States or the President than a resume of other countries should be a requirement!!!!

  • Palin should be treated no differently becuase she is a women. What I don’t want to hear is an attack dog mentality from her tonight. She needs to stick to the issues and answer the questions intellectingly. No sympathy vote for Sarah!