Obama, McCain spar over veteran’s benefits & Iraq

Coming off Memorial Day weekend, both McCain and Obama have been debating in the media over veteran’s benefits and the Iraq war. Obama led the weekend on Friday scolding McCain for not supporting a bill promising college benefits to veteran’s touted as a second “GI bill.” Monday, McCain responded and upped the ante a bit more.

First, a video report from ABC News on the beginnings of this argument from Friday:

Meanwhile, McCain was busy over the weekend hosting his “Veepstakes” barbecue and didn’t make any statements until yesterday when he spoke and called for improvement of veteran’s care:

Obama also spoke yesterday:

Here’s a report from AOL News on both candidates:

WASHINGTON (AP) – Anti-war Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain, a strong backer of the Iraq conflict, were reaching out to veterans on Monday, the country’s Memorial Day holiday, as the presidential candidates inched closer to a likely faceoff in the November general election.

Obama’s longshot rival for the Democratic nomination, Hillary Rodham Clinton, continued to campaign Monday in Puerto Rico. The U.S. Caribbean territory’s primary next week is one of just three left as the intense battle for the Democratic race begun in January winds down.

On Sunday, Obama struck a conciliatory note with McCain, whom he had been hammering for days, and urged unity in service of a greater good in a speech to university graduates.

Obama was filling in for U.S. Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, who was diagnosed with a brain tumor last week and had planned to deliver the graduation address at Wesleyan University. Kennedy has endorsed Obama over Clinton and has campaigned for him.

“We may disagree as Americans on certain issues and positions, but I believe we can be unified in service to a greater good. I intend to make it a cause of my presidency, and I believe with all my heart that this generation is ready and eager and up to the challenge,” Obama told the graduating class of 2008.

Obama spent much of the week criticizing McCain, the Republican presumptive nominee, for opposing a college aid bill for military veterans, part of a strategy to link the conservative Republican to the deeply unpopular Bush administration. But he stepped back from the topic ahead of the Memorial Day holiday honoring fallen U.S. servicemen and women.

Finally, as the ultimate conclusion to this discussion, McCain called on Obama to visit Iraq again before basing judgments on his last trip which was in 2006. The report on that from MyWay:

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) – Republican John McCain on Monday sharply criticized Democratic rival Barack Obama for not having been to Iraq since 2006, and said they should visit the war zone together.

“Look at what happened in the last two years since Senator Obama visited and declared the war lost,” the GOP presidential nominee-in-waiting told The Associated Press in an interview, noting that the Illinois senator’s last trip to Iraq came before the military buildup that is credited with curbing violence.

“He really has no experience or knowledge or judgment about the issue of Iraq and he has wanted to surrender for a long time,” the Arizona senator added. “If there was any other issue before the American people, and you hadn’t had anything to do with it in a couple of years, I think the American people would judge that very harshly.”

McCain, a Navy veteran and Vietnam prisoner of war, frequently argues that he’s the most qualified candidate to be a wartime commander in chief. In recent weeks, he has sought portray Obama, a first-term senator, as naive on foreign policy and not experienced enough to lead the military.

Obama’s campaign wasted no time in responding:

Obama spokesman Bill Burton declined to respond directly to McCain, saying only: “Senator Obama thinks Memorial Day is a day to honor our nation’s veterans, not a day for political posturing.”

In some respects, I agree with Obama that holidays like Memorial Day should not be politicized. However, McCain was giving a political interview with the Associated Press, not giving a speech in public.

McCain is right though on visiting Iraq, I’m betting Obama will be making a trip soon to quell that kind of criticism. This especially considering McCain goes every few months which is going to look a lot better when they’re debating the topic.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Hillary Clinton was throwing down some beers in sunny Puerto Rico:

Classic politician-in-the-bar footage… did someone say “no sh**” in the background?

  • Melvin

    OMFG!!! Has McCain lost touch with the military or what? I am an 8yr veteran and was a NCO. As a NCO I still qualified for food stamps. Yes I said a NCO and was still getting food stamps because my pay was that low compared to the civilian contractors that worked side by side with us.

    Education benefits are a completely needed. He needs to stop worrying about retention. If you want active duty people to stay longer, offer to give their dependents a free education while the service member is still active. More soldiers will stay just for the sake of children.

    No intelligent human being in this country can ever justify to me why they would vote against extending educational benefits for any veteran that has fought for the freedoms of this country.

    College should be completely free for ANY AND EVERY veteran with an honorable discharge PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Melvin

    When I was active duty I ALWAYS voted Republican because they were the part that at least tried to look after us as soldiers, but this current administration, and I hate to say it John McCain have made it so i could never in good conscious imagine voting for this new form of Republican. Damn I wish George Sr. would have just slapped his son and asked him WHAT THE HELL a few years ago.

    I guess in some cases the fruit does fall far from the tree and out of the damn orchard.

  • Babs

    McCain’s opposition to Obama’s GI Bill is being miscontrued. We don’t seem to be discussing the OTHER bill McCain is supporting. And there’s one thing in THAT bill that I agree with abundantly over Obama’s.

    While Obama’s (or the Democrat’s) bill does address college endowments for military, they DO NOT make them transferable. The bill that McCain supports (the republican bill) makes them transferable. In other words, if you served in the military, as you did, Melvin, and you didn’t choose to take advantage of your college benefits, you could transfer those benefits to your spouse or even your children. This is what McCain supports, and so do I. Shouldn’t we all? This expands your benefits further than they have ever been and further than the democrat’s new bill does. There are other points in the 2 bills as well, but the transferable college benefits package was a bigee for me. I oppose Obama’s bill as well – in favor of McCains.

    Of course there has to be political posturing over bills during an election. Of course Obama has to try at least to make McCain look like a bad guy over this, but who in their right mind would believe that McCain of all people would deny veterans benefits they deserve? This is about the dumbest ploy I’ve seen from Obama’s camp when opposing McCain on issues. This is a ploy betting that the american public will go no further in their judgment than his edited version of the situation.

  • Josh

    Babs, McCain is looking at the situation from a militarist point of view. He wants what’s best for the military, and this is not always what’s best for the soldiers. Do you honestly think McCain knows about the plight of the poor soldier who returns and cannot go to school? The first thing McCain did when he got back from ‘Nam was marry some rich broad who could support him, he doesn’t know about trying to get ahead in life. McCain is also over 70, so what makes you think that he understands the necceccity of a college education facing our troops nowadays. When McCain got out of the military there were ample industrial jobs open to returning soldiers, not something that exists now.

    McCain’s plans are to continue aggressive actions against Iraq, and against other countries as he sees fit, so it follows that his goal is to keep as many of the soldiers that are in the military now. The families of soldiers already have a plethora of financial-aid resources available to only them, it is the soldiers themselves that have been left out. All McCain wants to do with his program is force soldiers to stay in to allow their families to go to school, he doesn’t want to offer a real education for them, because if he did, they’d leave. That wouldn’t be conducive to McCain’s war-mongering plans for foreign policy.

  • Josh, I don’t think it’s fair to refer to McCain’s foreign policy as “war-mongering” simply because he takes a different view on the war. Your other points are debatable, for certain.

    However, just because someone takes the opposite view on the war doesn’t make him or her a war-monger anymore than it makes Obama a retreatist or defeatist. Would you refer to Obama’s foreign policy as “weak” or say he’s surrendering? I doubt it.

    It’s simply diverging views on how best to resolve the Iraq war. At least, that is my humble opinion.

  • OBAMA_SUCKS

    Anybody ever wonder why the liberal media never talks about the Iraq War anymore, and why stations llike NBC are under scrutiny for not displaying what is happening there. Read Ambassador Crocker’s latest report on the Iraq and you will get your answer to what is going on. McCain is right when he talks about the war and understands it much more than Obama.

  • Whobody

    But Nate…

    to be fair: with your explaination of labeling “war-monger” being equal to labeling “defeatist” or “surrendering,” would it be on equal grounds for Obama to call McCain a “war-monger,” because McCain is certainly saying Obama has plans to “surrender”?

    I’m not saying either label is fitting, but if you make that distinction with Josh, would you also make it with the candidates themselves?

  • Whobody

    I’m basically asking…

    since you made that distinction with Josh, do you think McCain has stepped over the line by labeling Obama’s plan to handle the war in Iraq as “surrender?”

  • Frank

    Obama_Sucks,

    McCain knows more about the us military then Obama. Obama knows much more about the world that we live in today.

    To test you, i have a question
    Wat are the difference between Hamas, Hezbollah on the one hand and al qaida on the other hand?

  • OBAMA_SUCKS

    Obama does not particulary know more about the world that we live in today. Maybe he does in certain things but not all. I am not the one who needs to answer that question for I am not the one running for president. I believe they are different religious extremist terrorist groups.

    WHOBODY- McCain does not step over the line when he says Obama’s plan for Iraq “surrender”, because thats what it is. If you believe its not surrender than why dont you explain to me how it wouldnt be seen around the world that it wasnt a surrender.
    As of right now there is no need to pull out the troops. Baghdad is controlled people walk the streets, kids play soccer all day, Sadr City is now under control, Sadr himself is now in Iran of all places, somewhere Obama said was miniscule than flipped and said is a huge threat.

    So yes a pull out is a surrender. Under McCain plan we will win the war, thats why 52% of the nation agree that with him as president we will win.

  • Whobody

    No no, O_S,
    I didn’t say McCain stepped over the line with my above comment. I asked Nate if by his equation of “war-monger” and “surrender” if he thought McCain stepped over the line. It was a question posed to him because of his previous assessment. It’s not even a rhetorical question.. I really want to know if (b/c his previous statement) if Nate, himself, thought this. It’s a matter of opinion I was asking someone else for. I did not state my own perspective in this situation, and I did not disagree with Nate. I asked if his perspective of Josh’s statement could be related to the candidates themselves.

  • Babs

    No Josh, you’ve gone a little off base concerning McCain now. His concern is not all about the military and not the soldier, my God, he was a soldier. And to say he doesn’t understand the neccessity for college tells me you know extremely little about the man. He actually takes flack for his charitable contributions every year, they’re all for EDUCATION. Hello, look it up. Yes, if anyone in Washington understands the plight of any soldier its John McCain. And to paint him as a free loader is also extremely biased, unkind, and untrue. Argue points about McCain that are at least halfway in step with his 70 years of life the way he’s lived it, ok? Because these personal attacks on him have no basis, stick to something that’s true. If its a generational problem you have with him, fine, but stick to the truth.

    And someone (an Obama supporter) did call McCain a “war monger” in the media a month or so ago, and was repudiated by everyone including Obama. So don’t be surprised to find your calling him one gets you repudiated here. I support the war, I’m not a war monger. Neither is McCain.

    To pull out of a war without victory is surrendering to the enemy. There’s no other way to refer to it accurately.

  • Whobody,

    To answer your question, I would have to say that I agree with you that both Obama and McCain are distorting each other’s position. Obama’s intentions are not to “surrender” by definition, though that is what McCain sees it as. McCain’s position is not “war-mongering” though that is what Obama sees it as.

    To have a true debate of the Iraq war, it’s more a debate between what is working in terms of military action and what is working in terms of political action.

    I would frame it in this way: Obama sees the solution as being more politically based by withdrawing the military. McCain sees the solution as being both militarily and politically based, though an emphasis on keeping a US presence in the country.

    Depending on which side of the issue you’re on, it’s seen as “war-mongering” or “surrender,” two extremes of the issue.

    However, I do think McCain hit right on point when he challenged Obama to visit Iraq again to truly assess the situation on the ground.

    Babs,

    I have also heard McCain referred to as a “war-monger” by some media types, though I cannot name specific examples.

  • Dreadsen

    MOderator replace my last post with this one please! i had an error

    Babs

    Well everyone on this question

    “To pull out of a war without victory is surrendering to the enemy. There’s no other way to refer to it accurately.”

    What is victory? If you don’t know what victory is then how long do you stay there? Maybe we have already attained victory. Right now since Victory has no definition at all. It is open.

    Remember Obama here and many other senators trying to figure out what is the goal.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yG83rSm6fY

    O.S.

    You were asked those questions because McCain didn’t know the difference between them yet he is supposed to have more knowledge then Obama.

    Here’s some other evidence of McCains phenomenal knowledge

    Quote from the article

    “For a foreign policy “expert,” McCain clearly has a pattern of getting the basic facts wrong. McCain insisted that ultimate political authority in Iran rests with Ahmadinejad — even mocking Klein when he challenged him on it. In fact, according to the CIA’s World Factbook, ultimate political authority in Iran rests with Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, not the president.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/20/mccain-confronted-with-ne_n_102614.html

    And here Ron Paul in the debate with McCain. McCAin seems to want to lump up arabic nations as Al Queida.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI3rNc_Faz0

    Chuck Hagel asking about the war. About a coherent strategy.
    There is no strategy. And remember Obama questioning at the Petreaus hearings. Trying to find out what is the goal. No one knows what the goal is. Unknown goal = there for ever.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88prCsPV-50

    Anotehr note everyone remember Bin laden saying that the plan is to bankrupt the united states? Well on THAT front of the war looks like Bin laden might be winning. As long as he can dump enough support to the multi fractions fighting IN Iraq it will keep us there spending our money.

  • Whobody

    Thanks, Nate. Insightful.

    Dreadsen’s got it right to confront the idea of “ending a war without victory is surrender” though. I mean it’s a nice line to keep a proud man’s spirits up, but our administration declared “victory” in the way of “mission accomplished” on May 1, 2003. So we successfully invaded Iraq, took Saddam out of power, and executed him. We successfully kept him from obtaining WMDs and aiding terrorists. Was that victory in terms of Operation Iraqi Freedom/Liberation? Now, victory has changed? Define our new victory. What is victory now? Maybe we need another catchy name for this “mission” so we can define our terms of victory. Maybe victory should have been defined before we invaded.

    Were is VICTORY in the war in AFGHANASTAN??? Why are we not worried about this VICTORY? Can we have some “victory-mongers” speak up about what we should do here? I’ll be one: If we want victory — find Bin Laden and prove to the world that we hold those INDIVIDUALS (not NATIONS of people) responsible for American deaths as our biggest priority.

    It is great to liberate people — but, often enough you can only do so much — people have to liberate themselves for it to work. Yes, we are doing good things in Iraq, but we are also doing things that hurt our nation and theirs. Victory can be declared when we stop placing so many people in danger, and Obama and McCain have different ways of accomplishing that. Calling one “surrender” is just as skewed as calling the other “war-mongering.”

    Estimates of the number of people killed in the Iraq War range from over 150,000 to more than 1 million. Find victory for them, and find it QUICKLY so others may live to see it.

  • Babs

    I’m going to try to embed a video here, if it doesn’t work, I’ll paste the URL.

    This is at a speech by John McCain yesterday that was interrupted by 7 different anti-war protesters. Apparently, this happens fairly often, but the crowd response actually surprised me each time. Notice also the “bad tempered” McCain didn’t lose his temper at all like Bill Clinton did the day an Obama heckler slammed Hillary. Just thought I’d throw that part in. 😉

    The point? Well, the more liberal leaning posters here can’t seem to imagine that ANYONE could support McCain concerning Iraq. But they do, and just as passionately as the anti-war folks protest it.

  • Babs
  • Whobody

    I don’t think anyone was saying NO ONE supports him, but rather the posters, THEMSELVES, which you were speaking of see no reason in their own mind for anyone to support him.

    All of these candidates face protesters. Almost everywhere they go.

    This video makes me think of the video of Obama dealing with anti-abortion hecklers at one of his rallies. He tried to quiet the chants a few times, but I think I remember him saying he didn’t mind them staying. What I really appreciated was him saying that those people at least got organized to protest and that, in itself, was an important part of American tradition.

    It’s off topic really, but I’ll try to find it for what it’s worth.

  • Whobody

    Like I said, it’s off the topic of the thread, but Babs comment and video made me think of what Obama had said about these particular protesters.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDWMxquNIpE&feature=related

    I think that’s the right one… a young man gives a video taped into and outro to it…

  • Babs

    “but rather the posters, THEMSELVES, which you were speaking of see no reason in their own mind for anyone to support him.”

    Isn’t that what I said? 🙂

  • Whobody

    Babs – “…can’t seem to imagine that ANYONE could support McCain concerning Iraq.”

    Possibly — It’s not that they can’t imagine ANYONE supporting, but rather they can’t legitimize their REASONS.

    I thought that’s why you posted the video… as evidence to these naysayers of actual McCain war supporters. I’m saying they are looking for the supporters reasons not just proof they exist.

    It doesn’t matter to me… I just thought the video you linked would not provide the posters you spoke of with what they refuted.

    But … all and all I’m glad you posted the video. Good stuff.

  • Frank

    Babs,

    Interesting video of McCain.
    What i dont understand is why McCain is such a respectfull intelligent guy on one thing but a stubborn guy on admitting the Iraq war is a mistake.

    What is your response to his debate with Ron Paul (dreadsen’s video).
    Go Ron Paul and Chuck Hagel by the way

  • Babs

    Frank, he doesn’t admit the Iraq war is a mistake because he doesn’t believe it is. Simple. Neither do I.

    By the way, are you a member of the D66 Party in the Netherlands or the Socialist Party? I’m thinking your a D66 member, but maybe I’m wrong.

  • OBAMA_SUCKS

    Frank,

    The Iraq War was not and has never been a mistake. It was mishandled by donald Rumsfeld, until John McCain developed a new strategy with general petraeus. Now in Iraq things are great and that is the main reason why the left wing like Obama for some reason dont bring up Iraq or the McCain 100 year war quote. So ever wonder about that Frank.

    I do not like how you call McCain stubborn for not admitting the war was a mistake, that is your view that it was a mistake. McCain based his whole campaign on the success of the war and won the nomination because of it and now 50% of america believe we can win the war with him as our president.

  • Frank

    Babs,

    Hmm wel i guess we wont agree on that.

    Im not a member of any party by the way. How come you know something about the dutch partys?

    Obama_Sucks,

    If things are great in Iraq, then why dont we declare victory now and leave?

  • Whobody

    Babs:

    Would you say the Iraq war was at least ill-planned? Or do you think overall it’s been just what the U.S. and the world needed to do?

    Why didn’t we finish what we started in Afghanistan before invading Iraq?

    O_S:

    “Things are great” in Iraq?

    Enlighten me as to why you say “things are great.”

  • Babs

    Whobody:

    I thought I had made my views on the war clear before, but I’ll say it again.

    Every action has a separate and equal reaction. The terrorists acted, we reacted. There’s not a playbook, like we fake left, they go right, we sprint right and get the touchdown. I don’t think you can really predict war strategies, you just have to keep taking it to them and react to their actions the best you can. If I had enough military knowledge to judge whether it was ill-planned, I would have enough knowledge to run the thing. I don’t. None of us on this board do. That’s why I support the man I believe DOES have the best understanding of military matters and has been involved in the war in Iraq – not from the TV, but from the ground – to get us through this thing and home safely under the right conditions. That’s John McCain. And I really wish Obama would accept McCain’s invitation to take a ride over there with him and see things firsthand.

  • Babs

    Frank,

    I know about the Dutch parties the same way you know about the American parties, I read. 🙂

    How do you like living in a Monarchy rather than in a Democracy like America? Do you involve yourself with our politics because you’d like to migrate to America and join our Democracy, or are you just curious with time on your hands? I’m surprised you don’t support Hillary Clinton, wouldn’t she compare more closely with your Queen than Obama would?

  • OBAMA_SUCKS

    Frank,

    Stupid question Im not going to answer it.

    Whobody,
    US soldiers say they see about 60 soccer games a day being played in baghdad and surrounding cities. Markets are now coming back and flourishing. Kids run the streets, women now go out. people are starting to get their lives back but in a different way, a way without an oppressive dictator. Sadr city is now under US and Iraqi military control. Most of the extremist have been either killed, arrested, or have ran away. Sadr himself has left the country of Iraq for Iran. Ambassador Crocker’s latest report on Iraq shows great improvements. Also the government in Iraq is now finally starting to step up and do some things themselves. Read up on Iraq lately and you will see the great things that are happening, don’t just stick to the NY times and other liberal media that say nothing about the war, because we are winning and McCain is right on his stance about the war.

    Babs, Obama doesnt want to accept McCain’s invitation because when the two would be side by side, McCain would look like our commander in chief, and Obama would only look like a stagehand.

  • Dreadsen

    Funny looks like no one in Congress has an answer on what “winning” or “victory” is. And that is a bipartisan conclusion. So we can stop with all this liberal media bull crap. because people on both sides feel the same way. Media that leans towards the war are only going to show good things and media that is against the war are going to show hell fire and brimstone. lol

    O.S.

    And how about this video where McCain gave the status on Iraq after he went over there. Look at minute 2:43 on up

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y395Tftgz0E

    About his Credibility on Iraq. I mean how many mistakes is this guy going to make on Iraq?

    So who are you going to trust? The man who was over there or the liberal media? Both are telling a slanted story but usually both are factual. (except what McCain told in this story and admitted he lied) if there is still hell and turmoil
    but at the same time there is the cookie and creme story. Take both sides into context and not dismiss either.
    Also Ron Paul and Hagel aren’t the only two Republicans who were critical against the war.
    Also when the War first happened almost all the media was for it. (well from my perspective at least) Remember Bill Press and Pat Buchanan show on msnbc? They were BOTH against the war. You had a liberal guy and a conservative guy both against it. What happened? haha they both got canned. Right now two similar commentators would both have a job because the media is divided on the issue now.

    Oh O.S. also take into consideration Obama was RIGHT about Iran Leadership with out going and McCain was wrong and he was right over there. All the experience in the world doesn’t mean anything if you aren’t learning anything in the process lol. That’s like being a freshmen in college for 8 years with out getting a passing grade! lol Who do you think is smarter? the person who passed in one year or the guy who flunked the freshman year for 8 years! lol!

  • Babs

    “About his Credibility on Iraq. I mean how many mistakes is this guy going to make on Iraq?”

    Dreadsen, McCain supporters are asking the same questions about Obama. How many mistakes is he going to make on everything?? Like 59 states including Hawaii and Alaska? Like he sees fallen heros in his audience? Like his Uncle freed people via what, osmosis??? Like he’ll meet unconditionally with terrorists leaders, then he won’t??

    See, the list can go on for both of them……..

  • Frank

    Frank,

    I know about the Dutch parties the same way you know about the American parties, I read.
    Babs,

    Nice to know you read about the rest of the world. More people (around the world) should.

    We basicly live in the same politiccal system. The difference is that i can vote for many partys and you only have two. I dont tend to vote right or left but i always vote liberal. Conservatives have a patent on not solving any problems here.

    I involve myself with your politics beceause ive always been interested and fascinated by America and your big influence on geo-political matters.
    In september 09 i will go the the university of Cincinatti (Ohio) to get my MBA. Therefore i will live in the USA for 12 months. Im looking forward to it.

    Clinton has a bad foreign policy judgement. She would make a great internal affairs secretary though. Just as McCain would be a great secretary of defence. As long as they dont interfere with policy making.
    People who think war is a usefull instrument of policy should never be in power.

  • Babs

    Well, Frank, I would suggest you reserve your judgement until you’ve experienced the atmosphere, at least, in America. Congrats on being able to go to the University of Ohio. Our country welcomes immigrants with open arms, and you’ll be welcome here as well.

    I think after reading the stats on your country from the CIA site I would submit that there are many differences. For starters, your country is not even twice the size of New Jersey, and any number of our states alone is more populated than your entire country. It’s easy to misjudge a large nation when you live in one of such minute size, and also one that depends heavily on exports to other countries like the Netherlands does to sustain itself, you certainly don’t want anyone in power who could upset your apple cart, especially your petroleum refineries. Sadly I notice, “ecstasy”, an illegal drug, is a major product that is being exported into our country in large quantities by yours.

    And while you may vote with one of the many liberal parties there, and feel conservatives solve no problems, I would submit to you that the problems of your nation do not correlate much with ours. You have no illegal immigration problems, for example. You maintain an extremely small military which is comprised by as many women as men, and are not involved with any conflict that I can find. No one has attacked you on your own soil. You are not by any stretch of the imagination considered a super power, while America is considered THE super power.

    In short, I suppose I’m saying that you cannot judge our government, or our political candidates worthiness, until you’ve “walked a mile in our shoes”. There’s a big difference in reading about our country, and living in it every day. You’ll find that out soon after you arrive, I promise you. 🙂

  • Whobody

    Babs,

    The terrorists acted and we acted in Afghanistan and against Bin Laden. That’s who planned the attack right? Why did we not find victory there before invading Iraq?

    You also said the military doesn’t have a plan or “playbook” when they go into a situation… You sure about that?

  • Frank

    Babs,

    You are exactly right. I dont know what its like to live in an country that is considered a superpower and has been attacked.
    Just as McCain doesnt know how its like to live in the palestinian areas or other places in the middle east. But still the USA, Europe, Russia and China try to tell them how they should live and run their government. You dont want foreigners meddling in your internal affairs just as people in the middle east dont want America bossing them around.

    Just as Ron Paul said,
    Imagine China telling the US government that they should change they way american politics works and building miltary bases in and around the USA.

    Im forever gratefull to the great nation of America for saving us from the Germans and our countrys wil always remain friens.
    But the dumb foreign policys of Bush havent made the Netherlands, the USA or any other place in the world any safer.

    Bush is the worst president ever and i hope that the next president will bring decentcy, intellect and respect back to the white house.
    The American people deserve one dont you think?

  • Babs

    Well, I don’t know that Bush is the worst president ever, I think Jimmy Carter claims that title, but I wholeheartedly agree with you that the American people deserve an intelligent President who will bring respect back to the White House. That’s why I’m supporting McCain. 😉

  • Babs

    Oh, and Frank, when these other countries you’re referring to expect us to continue to do business with them every day and pay them good money for their exports, we expect them to behave. If you went into a store to buy a product, but was met with antaganizm and infighting among the employees, you would walk out of the store without buying anything, wouldn’t you?

    Whobody, the reference to playbook was to simplify the war to a football game which is what armchair generals tend to do, sorry you didn’t catch that. I don’t second guess military strategy, I have no military experience. Do you?

  • OBAMA_SUCKS

    Frank in no way is Bush the worst president ever.

    Dreadsen you said,
    ” also take into consideration Obama was RIGHT about Iran Leadership with out going and McCain was wrong and he was right over there.”

    Im wondering what did Obama say about iran leadership that was right compared to McCain who is right when he says Iran breeds terrorists, they supply the extremists in Iraq and bring in and harbor terrorist themselves, which is something they did with Sadr himself? I would really like to know what Obama said that is right and what it was that McCain said is wrong.

  • Dreadsen

    Babs

    You are correct in your response to my post.
    I worded it incorrectly. Not mistakes but just uneducated assessment in an area where he is specialty area our just out right lying. This raises questions about this Phenomenal Cosmic Foreign policy advantage he is supposed to have.
    When Lieberman corrected him maybe we can chalk that up as a mistake. Like Obama’s 79 states ha! But if Obama was called out on that mistake i don’t think he would have debated with the person or said that they were just wrong. Like McCain did in this video

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/20/mccain-confronted-with-ne_n_102614.html

    That’s not a mistake that’s just him not knowing what’s going on.

    Babs i didn’t know that he said that he himself would meet unconditionally with terrorist. You will have to show me that one because i didn’t know.

    The story of his Uncle was confirmed to be true. He just got the name of the camp wrong.

    If you see the video above you will see that McCain went to Iraq and either he all out lied or didn’t have a clue what he witnessed first hand. Now if people are supposed to trust the person who was actually over there then how could you after looking at that AND this one.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/29/mccain-declares-mosul-qui_n_104208.html

    So he has gone back over there and has returned again to tell us that it is peaceful and safe in Mosul yet they just had 3 suicide bombings the very same day he said this?

    He was just over there again and he is still making similar claims as he did in the video i posted in the above post.
    Is it that he doesn’t know what he is talking about or is it that he is lying? If he is lying it is probably to keep us in high morale about Iraq. But to say Obama doesn’t know what he
    is talking about when saying it isn’t safe by lying about it being safe just isn’t fair for us relying on first hand information from him.

  • OBAMA_SUCKS

    Today a top level CIA member just spoke out about Iraqm i will try to find the article, and you should read it, it proves my point.

  • Dreadsen

    hey O.S.

    I’m open to it.

    if you don’t find it i understand.

    I see new topics where i saw some contrary evidence but didn’t save it and can’t retrieve it.