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From the “foot-in-mouth” file, Obama made quite the gaffe when speaking in San Francisco yesterday. I haven’t seen video of the speech but there is audio floating around which I have now obtained.
I managed to get the audio, here it is:
Very scratchy and hard to make out. Luckily the Huffington Post has the full transcript:
OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it’s fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre…I think they’re misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to ‘white working-class don’t wanna work — don’t wanna vote for the black guy.’ That’s…there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today – kind of implies that it’s sort of a race thing.
Here’s how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn’t buy it. And when it’s delivered by — it’s true that when it’s delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).
But — so the questions you’re most likely to get about me, ‘Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What’s the concrete thing?’ What they wanna hear is — so, we’ll give you talking points about what we’re proposing — close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama’s gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we’re gonna provide health care for every American. So we’ll go down a series of talking points.
But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you’ll find is, is that people of every background — there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you’ll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I’d be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you’re doing what you’re doing.
Something tells me that line isn’t going to go over well with Pennsylvania voters.
Trying to clarify and do some damage control, Obama tried to address the remarks and his campaign released this video:
Wasting no time, Hillary Clinton immediately jumped on Obama’s remarks:
This is still playing out, I’ll update with new information.
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Guns and religion have this in common: they are both able to deliver a feeling of empowerment to those who feel powerless. So it would make sense to see more of a fascination with both guns and religion (and other empowering phenomenon) in areas where many people are feeling powerless.
That social trend doesn’t demean religion – in fact the very sense of empowerment that religion delivers is a testament to the power of religion. Nor does an increase in the demand of guns in anyway degrade the arguments of 2nd amendment advocates.
Obama sure left himself open to attack on this, because there was a lot he didn’t really clarify, and he certainly didn’t go about saying this tactfully. But I think ultimately he’s pretty much speaking truth here. So happy that Clinton is ready to jump all over him for it. She would have done better to slap him over his demeanor than to twist his words as she did.
I do like that Obama seems to prefer national dialogue to political correctness, even when it injures him. And oh, it will.
Obama speaks the truth, even thought he may have said it wrong. Why is it he keeps getting attached for that.
Hillary has done nothing but get caught up in lies after lies. Then her husband and closest advisor are working against her, do you you really believe she doesn’s know what goes on, and poor Bill, he is really making them look pathetic.
I truely believe he can make a change. I hope all of you have an open mind, or it won’t be done.
Thanks
One point I would make about Obama’s recent gaffe, and something I think the Obama camp should learn quickly: independent, first time and disenfranchised voters may feel a bit of bitterness towards the political and electoral system, but that does not mean that “bitterness” would be a correct way to describe these same folks disposition towards everyday life. If he is not able to clarify his message, which I think has truth and good intention in it, he is going to come of as sounding out of touch and arrogant and continue to damage himself. People are sick of the way things have gone but you have to have a balance of negative/positive, retrospective/foresight.
Anyone who cannot see the anger and bitterness of people in the rust belt and other deindustrialized states that have been sold out by politicians who take their orders from lobbyists while paying lip service to “helping” working-class Americans is just tone deaf and blind. Wake up America. Think about what it means that Mark Penn is running both McCain’s and Hillary’s campaign. Ask yourself why McCain and Hillary are working together to defeat Obama. Why are both worth over 100 million dollars after having “served” so long in public office? Obama has struck a nerve by bringing up the plight of the working class, and the elites in Washington are outraged.
Way to come off as an sleazy academic elite!
It is a fact that small-town voters hold onto these things, because as another poster said, they make these people feel empowered. The point, however, is that these things have no place in a political process. The reason the Republicans use religion so often as a tactic is because they wouldn’t have anyone to vote for them otherwise. The Republican party long ago abandoned it’s ideal of fiscal conservity and laissez-faire government. The Republicans spend far more than Dems do, and on much less socially acceptable causes (think war-making and corporate welfare). The Republican fiscal policy only benefits the upper 5% of American citizens, giving the ultra-rich and the corporate giants massive tax cuts and subsidies, while increasing the burden on the middle class, which effectively eliminates it. This policy is all about shifting money from the bottom to the top, and furthur distancing the elite from the rest of society, whom they consider to be little more than indentured servants. The problem with this, however, is that in a general election 5% will never win. This is why the Republicans created “social conservatism” to attract the religious right, along with homophobes, racists, and xenophobes. The religious right was an easy target for Republicans, since they seem to generally believe anything they hear, so long as it comes from the mouth of a “clergyman”. Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and others have made billions off of converting ignorant fundamentalists to Republicanism.
Obama sucks end of story….
As a former Obama supporter i am glad i have had a chance to see the real person behind the political machine. Between his racially offensive “typical white person” comments and his racially offensive church and now his comments that assume the people of pennsylvania etc cling to there guns and religion i think its easy to see how fake he really is. I am calling for this guy to step down as a presidential canidate. America needs a canidate who will help bring this country together not tear it apart with constant offensive and insensitive statements. He claims to be that person but has only proven otherwise with his words, actions and beliefs
Patrick
Bill Clinton made similar assessment
“The reason (George H. W. Bush’s tactic) works so well now is that you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death,
His racially offensive church. I hope you understand that Trinity’s Church in chicago is the ONLY black one in the whole congregation. The rest is all white. I don’t think White people would support a man who is racially offensive to themselves.
Show me a statement the church made that uses a racially attack toward a race or sex. If you need to see more then the sound bite i can provide you a link if necessary. If you hear the 2 minutes leading up to some of his comments you will actually agree. But if all you hear is the one liner then it appears much worse.
I can show you some racially divisive things that Bill Clinton and John McCain has said. John McCain himself has used derogatory words to describe a group. So if you are going to paint Obama off of a loose assessment then you might as well vote for Ralph Nader because the alternatives are similar and WORSE.
i meant ethnic group as in Race. not just group by itself. i wish there was a way to edit posts.
Dreadsen, I made the correction for you.
I’m happy to see that there are not too many blindly ignorant statements regarding this manner. Obama spoke honestly; his wording wasn’t the best, but it’s true: the last two elections, whenever I asked someone who the were voting for and why, it was never the economy. It was the moral issues and the human rights issues that swayed people.
I do not get the “former Obama supporter” patrick. What drew you to Obama in the first place? I just can’t wrap my head around your sentiments; I’d like to understand you, but I am white and have grown up around all walks of life as an “Army brat”. I have seen first-hand racism and the American frustration with the government, to the point where I see whites and blacks visciously stuck in a cycle of resentment and quiet hate, and Americans so fed up with the system they don’t even see a point in voting because they don’t feel they make a difference.
Like I said, I wish I could see where you are coming from, but all your statements say to me is that you must have never really been behind Obama, as a person or his stance on the issues, if you will allow the media (and I’m guessing your life experience with black people or something) and the political opposition to paint Obama as the worst person ever.
If you would really rather vote for Hillary, that’s fine, but please don’t be ignorant and make Obama out to be something he’s not.
I had friends and peers (mostly registered Democrats) who voted for Bush only because they said Gore would take their guns away. I tried to persuade them that would not pass through a current U.S. government, but they maintained that even the thought or chance of it happening was enough to vote the other way. They admitted this was the sole reason they were voting the way they did. They bought in to the political rhetoric we always hear. I would call that “clinging to guns” in the political sense.
So, we know these things happen. Why can’t we respect our leaders that find the courage to talk about this? Even if he could have chose a better way to say it, at least he’s willing to talk about it, instead of giving American citizens the same political rhetoric that we always hear. I would rather a leader stand up and talk about the issues he/she sees in America, than to sit behind what is politically correct and never really confront the issue at all.
Obama was catering to the prejudices of his wealthy audience (it cost $2300 to get into the affair). He is just like any other politician: he will cater to the audience. He probably never envisoned that the remarks would become public, a serious mistake in contemporary politics. So much for his claims that he will bring Americans together. He just demeaned and insulted a significant part of the population, and for what? Money from the wealthy. Hardly something that will unify Americans.
Obama’s statements are typical of the liberal sentiment towards those who value religion and the 2nd amendment. They despise these people as made evident by many of the posts here.
Religion and gun ownership is not a crutch for the weak or powerless, it is a right given to us by the constitution.
Stalin, I think some of it could be as simple as a culture clash preventing true understanding here as well.
From a statement issued by Rick Davis, campaign manager for John McCain today:
“Today, John McCain offered a different account of small town America:
“During the Great Depression, with many millions of Americans out of work and the country suffering the worst economic crisis in our history, there rose from small towns, rural communities, inner cities, a generation of Americans who fought to save the world from despotism and mass murder, and came home to build the wealthiest, strongest and most generous nation on earth.
“They suffered the worst during the Depression, but it did not shake their faith in, and fidelity to, America. They did not turn to their religious faith and cultural traditions out of resentment and a feeling of powerlessness to affect the course of government or pursue prosperity. On the contrary, their faith had given generations of their families’ purpose and meaning, as it does today.”
These hard working men and women aren’t “bitter”. They love their country, their faith, their family and their traditions. They are the heart and soul of this country, the foundation of our strength and the primary authors of its essential goodness – Barack Obama should get to know them.”
I couldn’t have said it better.
dreadson,
“economically insecure white people”, i think if you look further into the economic situation you will find that a good portion of this countries problems include minorities as well( we have many housing projects which are 95% miniority with bmws in the driveway), the fact is we are all in someway responsible. as for Obamas church, you cant honestly believe that this was a one time occurance, and that it just so happens that someone had a video camera there that day. and it doesnt matter what was said prior to that you wont get me to subscribe to the fact that the government gave black people aids. and as for bill and mccain its not ok for any canidate to make racially offensive comments, however there are many people defending obamas. the guy can do know wrong in americas eyes right now, i saw a video where he sneezed and acutally got a standing ovation. im not voting for him because he is a phony, not because i have other motives. he should step down if mcain said the words, typical black person he would be gone by now, and you know it
When I graduated high school in 1965 America was the richest and most powerful nation on the face of the planet. It was a time when most citizens worshiped a Christian God, the U.S. practiced Fair Trade not Free Trade, the US Dollar was the strongest currency in the world and it was understood the basis of the 2nd Amendment was government should fear the people and not the other way around.
It was a time when U.S. Corporations employed U.S. workers and were loyal to America its people and ideals. It was a time when GE Appliance Park, Kentucky, a manufacturing city, housed 25,000 blue collar American workers, who enjoyed a middle class life style.
Obama, not everyone can be a college graduate. Surely you understand that a nation also needs a strong back and the ability to manufacture what is needed is a nation’s backbone.
Sovereignty/nationhood/borders mean Government and publically chartered corporations should work for the best interest and betterment of citizens within. Instead Free Trade, One World Ideals and International Corporations have allowed entire American industries to be destroyed by subsidized foreign competitors. “American” companies have built their manufacturing facilities overseas to take advantage of cheaper labor and now are off shoring the lower paying customer service and service economy jobs.
Bottom line Obama: What has been off shored is America’s wealth, ideals, lifestyle, hopes and dreams. In my lifetime “leaders” like you who mock the “old ways” have made America the world’s biggest debtor nation. A nation that begged allies for war plane parts during the first Gulf War because they are no longer manufactured in the US but sends troops overseas to protect corporations that fail to repatriate international profits in order to avoid paying American taxes and exhibit no loyalty to American families or soldiers.
Soon the world will cease to accept constantly devaluing US fiat dollars as the international currency for oil trade and America will be left utterly bankrupt. You and the other leaders who followed the “new wisdom†will be brought down to those you have already destroyed. Perhaps then you can rediscover a lost faith and an appreciation for the 2nd Amendment.
http://amendment10.tripod.com
Patrick
The government is not a race it is an institution. So yeah that remark was crazy as a hell. But it was not a Racial remark. I know people who go to that Church. He can be radical and all of his sermons are ALL ON TAPE. That wasn’t something that someone just so happen so to catch on tape. So something harsh was not a one time occurrence. But being that every sermon that man has preached is ALL AVAILABLE there would have been much more footage being trashed around the media then those few snip its. And As much as Fox news played those same sound bites for almost 45 days, being that Wright preaches about 3 times a week for almost 20 + years they would certainly have found more then those few bites.
Look how long it took them to come up with the garlic nose statement. This lets you know the hard work staffs are digging to find things on the guy.
So the this idea that he says things that harsh every single time is false.
No McCain didn’t use the words “typical black person” but he used the words GOOK to describe asians and he is not gone and has been voted back into office and may even get into the White House. A derogatory term is much more powerful then “Typical White person”. And McCain offered no apology.
Do you see the difference between the way McCain, Bill and Obama are treated on similar topics?
I am not saying Obama can do no wrong. I just want fair criticizing for everyone.
Dreadsen
McCain only uses the word “Gook” to describe his captors and torturers for 5.5 years in Vietnam. After going through what he did, he can call them whatever the hell he wants.
Stalin
Yeah a woman told me when Milwaukee was first being intergrated
that she was raped by 6 n***ers.
When asked why she calls black people n***ers she said
“I was only referring to the guys who raped me. ”
No apology for offending the rest of black people. It doesn’t justify using racial slurs. That adds to the facts that he voted against MLK’s birthday being a Holiday and against a Civil Rights act. That plus some of the comments of the people who support him and the people who he doesn’t denounce or reject sends a bad message. And there is never an excuse to use derogatory terms to describe anyone especially when you are running for office.
Stalin,
I disagree.
I can’t believe you coud say that and mean it. It shows very little cultural sensitivity on your part.
Were any of you around during Viet Nam?? I was, and had a brother who did THREE tours there. As I recall, “Gooks” was the term they used on the ground to distinquish a North Vietnamese from a South Vietnamese, or a friendly from an unfriendly. In fact, my brother to this day still makes that distinction when talking about his tours, and I don’t believe he means it as any racial slur, nor did John McCain. It was a perfectly acceptable term used in the way it was at the time.
The man was tortured for months in a prison camp because he fought for our nation. Wouldn’t he laugh if, amidst that torture he had known that years later we’d be criticizing him for the insults he hurtled at the people torturing him?
Give him a freaking break. Honestly, some of you guys make me sick. Political correctness has it’s limits.
He also happens to want to shut down Guantanamo bay, and put an end to that shameful business.
I’m sorry, I said months, I meant years.
Bigot:a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own
the term gook
“The word “gook” was first used in 1899 by American soldiers fighting Filipino insurgents. During the Korean War, the term was aimed at Koreans and Chinese. It was directed at the Vietnamese when Americans were fighting in Vietnam. It is now used as a slur toward any Asian or Pacific Islander.”
Babs the term is older then Vietnam and it is a slur. Look up the definition of it and look at the responses Many Asians have about that word. Go on any Asian organization and they will all tell you that the term is offensive.
McCain knows this is an offensive term, you all know it is an offensive term but following the logic of a bigot no one could care less who it offends.
So what i get from here is if an ethnic group does something very harmful to a person it is okay to use a racial slur towards that group regardless of how that group feels about it.
Remember the “n” word was perfectly acceptable at the time it
was first used. So i guess using that logic it’s okay to use it now.
If i find out that a term i use offends a group but i was ignorant to it. I would stop and apologize. But that’s me. I’m tolerant to other peoples feelings and views.
Michelle and Dreadsen
Good Lord guys, do you realize that you are considering the use of a word as more offensive than the heinous crimes that caused people to use those words? Are you serious? Political correctness is going to get people killed in this country.
Yes Dreadsen, the term was used to refer to vietnamese in a time of combat. Funny how McCain refers to vietnamese who tortured him for years during war by using a slur that means exactly that. Would it have upset you less if he had just shot them instead?
We’d certainly hear about it less.
I can understand it if you wish to raise concerns that he might be biased against the vietnamese in matters of foreign policy or something. But he’s not throwing the term around, he’s just not taking it back. The man has sacrificed dearly for this country – forgive him if he refuses to ever take back a single bad word he’s uttered against his captors. It’s probably a matter of principal.
This is why Republicans always say Dems don’t support the troops – because a war hero has fought for his country, endured years of torture for this country, and when he returns his people are upset with him because he’s called his captors by an outdated term.
If ever I am tortured for 5 years, I reserve the right to call my captors all sorts of bad names, and doody-head will only be the tip of the iceberg.
This just reminds me of the american people who spat on our soldiers when they returned home from Vietnam, and my brother being one of those soldiers I normally try to leave that little fact buried. Dreasden, you’re welcome to your opinion and your argument and you are probably politically correct by the same standards of those who did that. But I stand by my argument as well, and it’s a personal thing for me.
Keep in mind that McCain also tells a few stories about some of his captors who treated him kindly and is grateful for that. I agree with IndiMinded, hold me captive and torture me for even a day and I’ll be cussing you like a sailor the rest of my life. And you’ll deserve it.
dreadson,
i couldnt agree more that it is not ok for any pres candidate to use offensive racist slurs. im just saying there is a double standard when comes to a black, or half black person in obamas case, using racist statements. it was not ok for mccain to use the word gook, but just the fact that everyone can type “gook”, but must say the “n” word instead of the full word supports whats going on in this country. just look at dom imus, he makes a statement(which i thought was wrong) and the whole country looks for his head on a platter, yet obama makes a racist statement and the news media( other than fox) downplays it as a poor choice of words, there were no apologies, no scheduled meetings with people who felt hurt, why? because to apologize is to admitt wrong doing. i want obama to step down not because im a racist, because he is. we must stop this double standard before it gets worse.
Patrick
You make a very excellent point. Why were people, including myself willing to type the “G” word, but not the “N” word?
In my opinion people are way too sensitive these days. For example, an Obama delgate in Carpentersville, IL was fined for referring to two black kids playing in a tree as “monkeys”. Yes, a poor choice of words, but getting fined? Where is the ACLU on this one?
Link to story:
http://www.chicagotribune.....1489.story
Indiminded
Trying to connect the dots about dems (i’m not a dem) allegedly
not being supportive of troops has nothing to do with this at all what so ever. But i will comment on that. Pro war folks
started that fallacy. If you are against the war then by default you don’t support the troops. Crazy logic in my opinion. Looking at some people’s stance on this reminds me of a stereotype on republicans.
Patrick
Obama used a racial slur towards a group? Show me what derogatory term he used. After watching this debate I just to see him getting a free pass on anything. Is it a parallel to the “G” word? the term “N word” itself is widely known abbreviation. But if you say the “G” word it could mean a whole lot of things. Glad you pointed this out. I was unaware of my own ignorance on that one.
Don Imus is a different case. The WHOLE country didn’t want his head on a platter. There was an uproar the but he would still have his job if it wasn’t for Al Sharpton. Imus show had many sponsors. The argument was Imus can say what he wants but the people who were offended ( believe it or not the women who he directed it towards weren’t even as angry as
Sharpton was but anyway that’s how he makes a living) don’t have to support his sponsors with their money. Imus DID apologize though and he also said he should be fired. So he repented.
Babs
you logic would also mean that any minority who grew up years before and through the civil rights era have the right to call those white people who did the lynching, burning, etc anything they want.
I know there may not be many words that can be used that hold the weight of “n” word that can be used against white people.
So it’s hard to draw a parallel. But when Farakahn uses the term white devils he should get a free pass as well because he’s only referring to those types who did the evil things.
This can apply to many extreme ministers. But if i felt the way you feel about McCain i would not have such a disliking or hatred towards guys like Farakahn.
Oh please, Dreasden, you didn’t mean to compare McCain to Farakahn, did you?
Stalin is right, there’s way too much sensitivity going on when you can’t feel comfortable in situations like this. So let me just jump out here and say this. I’ve kept quiet through all the debates on race and racism here on this board. I haven’t said Obama is himself a racist, though he is. I haven’t said this opinion is shared by a great number of people in my community, though it is. And I haven’t said these things so as not to be stereotyped by people on the site. Because that’s probably what’s about to happen now.
People write about race and racism here like they’ve never been confronted with anything more than the theory of situations involving the “n” word or the “g” word, or any other word like that. I have lived with those “situations” most of my life. I was there the first day black students arrived at our schools, when we had no idea why we weren’t supposed to like each other. I graduated high school in a class of 41 students (way back when) – and only 2 of us were white. I was voted Class favorite, most talented, and most likely to succeed in the who’s who which is voted on by students, so you can see I had no problem with blacks and they had no problem with me. I didn’t get sent to the private Dixie Acadamy like most of my friends, because my Dad was a minister who didn’t believe in the separation for religous reasons. And wait, it gets better. I graduated high school in George C. Wallace’s hometown. I now live in a small community that is 90% black and have for over 20 years, and it’s still in the South. As a matter of fact we live smack in the middle of Dixie, on the outskirts of a large city that is 80% black. So while ya’ll (yes, the southern in me is comin’ out!) are debating the offensiveness of the “n” word, I have openly discussed it for years with black individuals and friends themselves. I have heard THEM use it for years right in front of me, with nothing resulting from it but laughter. Are there militant or radical blacks around? Sure there are. But most aren’t. I was told when I was 16 by a black classmate named Benjamen Franklin that a “n” “is anyone who acts out of their race”. I’ve also been told many, many times over the years by blacks and I know it’s true because I live it, that calling someone the “n” word is the same as calling someone an SOB or B*, MF, or yes – a redneck or cracker, or any other cuss word you choose. Because that’s what it’s viewed as – a cuss word, period.
Obama may know something about northern inner city blacks, but he doesn’t have a clue about the southern black or white culture today. And I’ll give you an example of that. Jesse Jackson warned Obama not to rely on the black vote. Well, he knows that from experience. In 1995, the 100 Year Flood came to our door. The head of the NAACP tried to claim that the city purposely diverted the river at some point in history so that if a flood occured it would wipe out the black neighborhoods. She talked this until she got Jesse Jackson’s attention, and he flew down here and announced a big march through the streets in protest of this supposed injustice. Didn’t hear about it? No you didn’t, because only 20 – TWENTY – black people showed up to march with him, out of over 200,000 black people in the city. The claim was assinine, and the black population knew it, and refused to participate in it. Jackson gave Obama some good advice, and he would do well to listen. His pastor problems turned a great number of black people here against him, that’s why I’ve mentioned more than once “voters remorse”. They felt that America in general would ASSUME that all black churches are like Wright’s, and the majority of people here were as offended by the man as everyone else. When he turned against his own delegate for calling children playing in trees monkeys they were embarrassed by his overly sensitive racism. I sat in church just this past Sunday behind a young teenage bi-racial girl who was wearing her favorite hoodie – light blue with monkey faces all over it, and holding her stuffed monkey (well worn) she had taken into the children’s Sunday School class for a skit just the hour before. Is her white mother a racist? Come on.
And finally, when I asked several people at a town meeting a few weeks ago what they thought about Obama’s speech on race (because I’m bold that way, you see)? Some said they didn’t even listen to it, some thought he was trying to be another MLK and did a poor job of it, and wise old Mr. Charlie said “the boy needs to decide what he wants to be when he grows up”. I said “You mean black or white?” He laughed and said, “No, I mean a preacher or a politician”.
If you have lived, as I have, freely moving and mixing with blacks as good a friends as whites, you would know that the difference between black and white is not color, it’s culture. If you are white, you can be a part of a black community, but you will never be a part of the black culture unless you are black, and vice versa. That’s the difference. And the “n” word is irrelavant to that. A racial slur? No, just another cuss word here, used frenquently among blacks in the community. Politically correct? Isn’t that an oxymoron anyway?
Babs nice story. Your all over the place now. I didn’t see any of my points addressed though.
If you want to ignore it then i will ignore it too.
Listen i see Ad Hominem lurking in your statement. A lot of your last post doesn’t hold water because you don’t know who I am or “People” as you put it are.
“I haven’t said Obama is himself a racist, though he is.”
Okay now you have said it. I don’t know what dots you connect to come to the conclusion that he is a racist but I challenge you to show me how. Because the same path can be made with McCain and loosely Hilary.
“I haven’t said this opinion is shared by a great number of people in my community, though it is”
Okay now you have said this as well. So this community where it is what 80-90% black? The majority of these people all feel Obama is a racist?
“People write about race and racism here like they’ve never been confronted with anything more than the theory of situations involving the “n†word or the “g†word, or any other word like that. I have lived with those “situations†most of my life.”
You don’t know anything about the people here in that respect. Unless you know some people here personally. Maybe they have lived in those situations. Maybe they are BLACK maybe they are WHITE. That is besides the point. You do not know if they’ve been confronted with those situations or not. But right now you can’t attempt to attack someone based on who they are when you don’t know who they are. So just stick with the points and address those.
What i gather is in this mystery community all the blacks feel that it is okay for White people to use the “n” word when referring to blacks? Correct?
These black people in “this community” also feel that the “n” word is not a racial slur?
( the more i reply to this the more i think about how this is
is to far off of topic and has little to do with our mini discussion)
Would they feel it is okay for white people who THEY DO NOT KNOW PERSONALLY to use that word around them? you know like how motherf is used a lot in general speaking?
The people who know you feel it is okay for you to spout the n word around but ask those same people is it okay for you to use it among all of the 90% of this community with no problems at all?
Also ask them is it okay for YOU to use that term among all of the blacks through out the united states?
Ask them this? If they were at a job interview in a predominately White factory and in the job interview they over heard a group of white collar workers sitting around and
referring to blacks as the “n” word through out their entire conversation. And then one of them say “hey keep it down one of them is over there” Would they feel this is okay?
Also remember one community doesn’t represent all communities. I can show you a community similar to yours which may feel the total opposite. Does it mean that their view is gospel? No it doesn’t.
Dreasden, I’m sorry, I wasn’t really speaking to you alone except for the first question. And I was rambling a bit in general. It just makes me a bit angry that race even enters into this election, because it’s caused so much wasted time we should have been using on real issues, and I just wish we could stop it.
I’m not even going to rebut your post, even though you’ve misinterpreted some of what I wrote. If I had said it better, you probably wouldn’t have.
The point is race has been too big an issue in this election, and I find that its the white population walking on eggshells around statements like Ferraro’s. There’s a big difference between a racial statement and a racist statement, and there’s a big difference in using a term like “gook” intending it as a racial slur, or just intending it in the way it was meant which is not a racial slur. The point was that in all the race polling and general consensus that the black majority is voting for Obama because he’s black – especially in the south – I just wanted to say that’s bunk. And that blacks “here” are not nearly as sensitive about race as they’re stereotyped as being.
But I will answer this part, NO it is not ok for a white person to go around calling a black person the “n” word. It’s also not ok for a black person to call a white person an SOB, etc. It’s a matter of respect. As in what Wright has none of for whites. Blacks call other blacks the “n” word many times in jest. That’s their business, it’s their culture.
But you have to admit, politically correct is an oxymoron. Being “political” and “correct” at the same time are virtual opposites. *L*
Babs i believe that i’m correct that you are trying to present the argument that the “n” word has been reduced from what it meant back in the 60’s to just being a cuss word.
And you have come to this conclusion from blacks in YOUR community who have told you this.
Okay now if we are all going to come to a respectful understanding of racial tensions in this country we can not have the attitude that what i feel is the absolute gospel because of what i have been through and because of people who
happen so to look like the people the word is supposed to offend.
What I am saying is what you are saying is true. BUT understand that there is not a minority of people outside of where you live and across the nation who feel that it is STILL A derogatory term which comes with years of emotional pain and rooted history of hate. There are not just militant
or political activists.
Once you understand and accept that there are blacks who feel one way and blacks who feel the other way then you will be on your way to being sensitive to the way other people feel.
let me make it clear i’m not saying you are WRONG or the people in your community are wrong in what they define.
I’m saying you are wrong in thinking that is the one and only way of viewing it.
And as long as there are those who feel that way (and there are a lot, there have been marches against rap artist for using that word and many blacks who won’t even call each other that word) they must be respected.
hehehe and i do agree with you that political and correct are almost oxymorons. or just morons haha.
dreadson,
your right there are black people who are still offended by the “n” word, so therefore it should never be used. however, it should be noted that it was the black, mainly hip hop community who changed the word into a curse word. it is the mother of all double standards. i was watching the usa network the other day and they blocked out all traditional curse words(”f” “S” “A”) yet actually allowed the “n” word to be said. the black people who support this idea of i can say but you cant are segragating themselves, which is the opposite of what the black community wanted. but really nobody should use that word. and it is not o.k. that it is on a basic cable channel for young people to see. thats a whole other issue.
on a side note did anyone see obama give hillary the finger, real mature thats who i want running my country. just another example of how obama doesnt have the experience to lead a whole nation. it is really hard to talk foreign policy with other nations when u always have your foot in your mouth
Alright folks you have got to be kidding me, “Guns and religion have this in common: they are both able to deliver a feeling of empowerment to those who feel powerless.” What a RUDE thing to say, seriously. Believing in God does not make me feel empowered, just hopeful that there is someone or
something that exist when we die, my faith brings me great comfort in this very messed up world. Something else that bring me great comfort is guns. Why you ask? If someone brakes into my house and tries to hurt my family I WILL protect myself. Is it a fear thing, you bet your liberal butt it is. I wouldn’t think twice of shooting.
I’m not saying you have to have the same views as me, but DO NOT take my right of protecting myself away. My house, my property, my right to shoot. If Obama “really” believes the words he muttered then I would ask how he plans on protecting his family. Would he really let some perv enter his home and violet his daughters or wife, if so he is a poor excuse of a man. I’m glad that I’m not married to a feminine man.
Patrick you make good points.
but note a lot of the rap community well especially the latest
wave has had a lot to do with it. But we must not assume that they are an accurate representation of the Black Community as a whole. We can’t point the finger at the ENTIRE black community based on the actions of these rap artists which have been condemned by many other blacks. So it is a debate with in the community but one sides argument and the people who represent this argument shouldn’t be dismissed as a small minority or inaccurate.
http://www.billboard.com/.....1003578963
You will see that there was a March against rap recording artists and their companies for using lyrics like this. Read the article and you will see that one of the requests is that they censor ALL of those words. There have been many other blacks who
have expressed the disgust in the use of these lyrics.
The double standard or hypocrisy is OF the people who USE these lyrics who also say that it isn’t okay for others to use the same word. You will see some of them come up with some pretty weak arguments to why they can and others can’t but that’s the argument of THIS group. All blacks shouldn’t be held accountable for them.
on the side note
oh man i didn’t see this. you have to show this obama fingergate.
Babs – your ‘evidence’ for why you’re sensitive to race just doesn’t stick. Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, are all urban behemoths where people of all races go to schools together. I was a minority during my elementary school years, does this make me sensitive to African-American issues? No. Does this make me aware of racism? Absolutely not. And in fact, I was not fully aware until years later when I did a lot of reflective work on this.
What these experiences did was provide me with the opportunity to become aware, to understand, but really if you look at the race riots in Los Angeles, the police issues in Chicago, and repeated racial problems in New York, you’d see that people in this country are not taking advantages of these opportunities.
W.E.B Dubois said that the defining issue during the 20th century was the color divide, and he was right in the early 1900s, and he is right still today.
People are “walking on egg shells” with this current campaign because race is SMACK DAB front and center. We’ve run largely a racist presidential contest for most of our U.S history– and it is only now with a viable non-White candidate, that this issue to becoming transparent. What do I mean by ‘racist’ presidential contest? If you were not White, you weren’t viable for most of U.S historical presidential races, and if you were White, you couldn’t run on a platform that gave any significant platform for people of color. Of the 43 presidents, there are perhaps four that stand out in their acts, and even then, had to hold back their role because the country’s politics was against them.
(1) John Quincy Adams was a quiet abolitonist during his presidency. (2) Abraham Lincoln used the issue of slavery to help with the railroad expeditions (remember, southerners at that time cited it was not ‘racism’ but economic inequalities from the North that were unfair), and Lincoln’s push then was enough to cause a Civil War. (3) Lyndon B. Johnson pushed Congress to pass the Civil Rights Act in 1964 (nearly a 100 years after the country freed enslaved Africans and made them equal under the law). And even then, Johnson said we lost the “South” for at least a decade because of this. (4) Bill Clinton’s addressing of African American concerns was not huge, but was huge in comparison to his predecessors.
So far, people have shown they are unable to talk about, address, or even understand race in this context (whether it is the media, pundits, etc.). I do not think the solution is to talk less about. Rather, it is to talk more about it– and in a more cogent manner.
Dreadsen, to piggy-back on your response, the commercialized rap community is largely more harmful than helpful to the African American community. Most songs reinforce prejudices– mostly sexist and racist– and debases African American culture. This is why people like Sarah Jones writes songs like “Your Revolution Will Not Happen between These Thighs,” critiquing these young African American male chauvinistic singers.
i saw the video on a few outlets it can be seen on break.com(not the most political of sites but ive seen it elsewhere and i dont think its fake)
michael,
i agree with you that most of the rap community can be more harmful, they are adding fuel to the fire. i also dont think that they represent all of the black community(dreadson) its a shame because alot of the music is really good and fulled with talent
In fact, I will add to this argument and say that all these liberal democrats who listen to Obama and Clinton tell them the government can solve all their problems are the true “powerless” class. They cling to government out of bitterness over the Bush administration. They cling to government to “empower” them over “evil” corporations and the economy. It’s hilarious because when Obama made the statement about small town voters needing empowerment through guns and religion, he was talking to people who literally feel they need empowerment through the government. Liberal democrats claim they are powerless and look to the government for their empowerment, that’s the true irony in all this.
CG, Obama’s mistake was giving academic jargon in a political venue. Guns and religion do empower people, this is not really a debatable subject.
According to various scholars on religion, whether it is Peter Berger saying that religion is the audacious attempt to make human life cosmically significant, or Freud’s assessment of it, this is what religion does. When we perceive reality as chaotic, uninterpretable, or overwhelming, religion becomes the means to make everything comprehensible.
Guns are an individual device that instills in a person a feeling of physical and emotional power. To wield one, hold it in ones’ hands, offers a sense of empowerment.
I think liberals are looking for government to do different (and more domestic) things with their money than Republicans (and I mean Republicans, not conservatives). The money spent on the wars overseas, could easily be spent on the health care here. I do not see any more “clinging” to government by the liberals over wanting the government to fix their concerns over health problems, than Republicans’ clinging to the idea that sending our government and its military overseas will make them feel safer here.
I’m sorry Michael, you consider Freud a “scholar on religion”. I would not call him a scholar on religion. I could respect the argument if you argued on behalf of Freud’s theory on defense mechanism as it being applied to guns and empowerment. But as for religion, speaking specifically about Christianity which was the context that Obama was referring, you must keep in mind that Freud was Jewish. So there is a personal bias that cannot be overlooked.
I’m interested to hear why you consider Freud a scholarly religious source. The only opinion he could render on the subject is to recommend the poor souls who actually would fall for Christianity an anti-depressant, or his favorite drug that suppressed thought, Cocaine. This was typically dolled out from his psychiatric pez dispenser. Boy liberals just love Freud, he offers the quick solution of blaming mother for everything or in this case the government.
Michael,
Actually I’d say Obama’s biggest mistake was letting his true feelings show in the open. That is, regardless if it’s “academic jargon” or not.
Plus, can you honestly tell me that all these people screaming for Obama’s “change” aren’t looking for government empowerment? I’d say mainly because they feel they cannot empower themselves without government help in the form socialized medicine, government bailouts, and/or increasing other domestic social programs. They feel helpless until the government “helps” them. They are convinced they cannot be empowered until the government allows them to be. It’s the same type of empowerment, just a different instrument with which they’re achieving it. Would you disagree?
I can tell you, personally I’d feel empowered if all of the presidential candidates just stayed out my life and let me empower myself through individual achievement and responsibility, none of them are espousing that. Instead they’re convincing people that the government will empower them.
That’s my two cents on the matter.
CG: Sigmund Freud wrote important works that have shaped the discourse on religious studies in this country. Among them: Future of an Illusion, Totem and Taboo, and his rather poor work in Moses and Monotheism. The first two have had a strong and durable impact, the last has not. As far as functionalist accounts of religion goes, his is one of the strongest out there. Name a few you think are better. Freud was not Jewish, his family was. In fact, Freud once said he wished he had a bone in his body that could relate to faith, but he didn’t. Emile Durkheim came from similar roots, as did Karl Marx. All of these were important intellectuals in their time, and have shaped academic discourses from economics to sociology today. I do not think their “Jewish” heritage corrupts them in anyway (any more so than someone’s Christian, Hindu, Muslim, or Sikh heritage could).
Nate, I would say people wrapped up in the whole “Obama Change” rhetoric believe that he is going to rework the politics in Washington– so it is more the methods, than the applications. In this sense, they believe (rightly or not) that he will bring more transparency to government, and become more involved in the process.
So this mentality does not hinge on greater government involvement, but rather the manner of governmental involvement. In many ways, they are arguing for democratic processes (people becoming part of the on-going political process). I just do not know if Obama can really deliver more so than Clinton or McCain on this.
Everyone,
Guns and God mean different things to different people so to say that we can disect this issue, analyze it, then repackage it nicely is not possible. What we do know is that Obama pissed off a lot of people by presuming to know how people in PA are feeling. After last nights primary, I would say that he does not.
Stalin, I was watching a live feed this morning of McCain at a Town Hall meeting in Kentucky. A senator (didn’t catch his name on the tape), in regards to the comment you’re talking about, said “I think it means Obama doesn’t understand people in our neck of the woods”. And I personally think that sums it up, don’t you?
Babs,
I would definitely agree with that. If Obama gets the nom, he may have a hard time convincing rural democrats that they have anything in common. McCain will probably pounce on this in the general.
Stalin you are correct
especially being that statics of “uneducated voters” and “educated voters”.
we all have seen which one of them vote for who. And we all know which one is most likely to live in rural areas.
I don’t know about you all but i would feel offended being lumped up in an “uneducated” category.
CG
Isn’t your description of what Obama’s supporters cling to a common view of Democrats among conservatives?
I do feel offended, Dreadsen, especially when you just connected the dots between “uneducated” and “rural”. I suspect my rural neighbor, the retired CEO of Coca-Cola, is offended as well. *L*
Babs
Why do they even have that statistic? I know there are probably more demeaning statistics that can be formed but this pole shouldn’t even be gathered in my opinon.
(geeze i just figured out that *L* must mean laugh)
Yes, *L* means laugh. *wink*
I don’t know why they gather statistics like these, during the Penn. exit polls they were touting Obama getting the college graduates votes, but then further down the list they separated college degrees which skewed the results away from an Obama run away stat. It’s all ridiculous, and I think, is done just to give the media something to talk about.
DELETED DUE TO INFLAMMATORY LANGUAGE- MICHAEL