Extreme Liberalism disgusts me.

I believe I have come to understand what Liberals intend to accomplish…. rather than work WITH people, liberals much rather work AGAINST people. That being the case I have to ask how then can liberals actually be capable of working FOR anyone they represent? This is what’s wrong with the country today. Republicans have their own problems and scandals, but this is absolutely outrageous and ridiculous. Why, I want to know… WHY are these people so hell bent on flagrantly trying to divide the nation? Do they think we don’t see it? Do they think we don’t realize that the stunts they pull aren’t transparent? Such is an example:

Click HERE for the actual ad taken out by Moveon.org

The Story:

WASHINGTON — An strongly-worded advertisement targeting Gen. David Petraeus by the liberal antiwar group MoveOn.org has touched the nerves of Bush administration officials and congressional Republicans.

The full-page ad in The New York Times was timed to appear on the day that Petraeus — the top U.S. military commander in Iraq — gives a seminal report to Congress alongside U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker.

The report, mandated in a troop funding bill earlier this year, is on military and political progress in Iraq since President Bush announced the plan to boost troop levels last January. The officials are expected to argue for maintaining the increased troop levels through the spring, a recommendation hotly contested by war opponents.

“I resent the comments of those who have sat comfortably in their air-conditioned offices, thousands of miles away from the firefights and the roadside bombs, and tried their Washington best in recent days to impugn the general’s good name,” Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said in a statement delivered from the Senate floor on Monday.

My reply would be the same as Mitch McConnell as well as McCain’s:

“This is a man who has devoted his life in service to our nation and has defended America in many battles over many years,” said McCain.

What the HELL is wrong with idiots that feel they need to attack the very men that fight for their rights to be such morons in the first place? Have these people lost their damn minds, had poor education, done to many drugs in the 60’s or what?

The Bottom Line: liberals have forgotten that they are Americans first. They have forgotten that politics come second.

Most importantly they have forgotten that trying to back up a story with purported “facts” from what is generally accepted as liberally biased media, is absolutely retarded, moronic and pointless:

By late morning, MoveOn issued a statement defending the ad’s accuracy.

“We stand by our ad — every major independent study and many major news organizations cast serious doubt on Petraeus’ claims,” said Eli Pariser, executive director MoveOn.org’s political action committee.

Pariser’s challenged lawmakers supporting the war to refute him and cited several news articles in defending the advertisement. He also noted a new Gallup poll out Monday that, he said, shows Americans expect “a biased report that reflects what the Bush administration wants the public to believe.”

So the guy is citing news articles, so called “major independent studies”….nothing in this country is independent, and he quotes major news organizations which we all know are biased in one direction or another? Sounds like his stance is completely baseless to me. What independent studies is he talking about and why aren’t they named? What major news organizations and why aren’t they named other than 2 liberal rags? And as for the polls…somebody forgot to mention to Pariser that the polls also indicate that Congress has a lower approval rating than Bush does. Accusing a report that at the time had yet to be published, of being biased to reflect what Bush wants it to say would be like saying Moveon.org isn’t just saying what THEY want you to think. Moveon.org’s comments are PURELY PROPOGANDA. Petraeus at this time noted that he did not submit his report to anyone, even in the white house, for approval prior to it being handed out in congressional hearings, so theres goes the B.S. that the liberal propaganda of Moveon.org wants you to believe. As a matter of fact Codepink, Moveon.org, and other far left organizations made it a point to disrupt congressional hearings today which wound up in police action and stern comments from congressmen. Democrats can’t even control thier own house, after all they allowed them in to begin with.

The poll, however, also shows that Americans trust Petraeus’ recommendations more than others, including the Joint Chiefs of Staff, President Bush and congressional Republicans and Democrats. Sixty-three percent of respondents trusted Petraeus either a great deal or a fair amount; 58 percent rated the Joint Chiefs of Staff as well; 16 percent rated the president in the same terms; and 12 percent rated congressional Democrats as trustworthy.

The Sept. 7-8 telephone poll of 1,028 U.S. adults showed that 53 percent of respondents believe the report will reflect what the Bush administration wants the public to believe, and 40 percent believe it will be “an independent and objective report on the current situation in Iraq.” The poll had a 3 percent margin of error.

1028 people does NOT anywhere NEAR a valid poll make. Regardless of the figures, it’s garbage exactly like that poll figure, that gets ignorant people to believe what they believe. The FACTS are not reported as they should be, media is and always has been politically tainted and used for propaganda purposes, I don’t care what media outlet it is.

People spend entirely too much time RELYING on political propaganda when they should be questioning it. It’s called propaganda for a reason, it’s NOT fact. Does anyone with half a brain honestly think statistics would include or disinclude information based on the direction a shot came from? That’s just preposterous, yet in thier ad, that’s exactly what Moveon.org would have you believe as if they somehow managed to get their hands on the precise information and calculation methods used by the military….yet sadly people will choose to believe it for the simple fact that, that sort of comment made it into print.

I challenge Moveon.org to answer one question:

When did we decide politicians, re-election political propaganda and politics win wars as opposed to hardened military war veteran generals?

Note to Moveon: See Vietnam and the politics involved that made it the catastrophe that it was because we didn’t let our military do it’s job.

See liberal activist “Hanoi Jane” Fonda palming social security numbers from American P.O.W.’s and turning them over to North Vietnamese officials which promptly led the P.O.W.’s having the piss beat out of them for trying to reach out for help.

Wake up and stop believing everything you watch on TV or read in the paper people….DECIDE FOR YOURSELF. Politicians want you to believe what they want you to believe, it’s about re-election, not serving your needs. Having a mind of your own does not require being either a liberal Clintonite or a neo conservative Bush-Bot.

An intelligent mind should know if anything above all else this simple fact:

When Saddam’s statue was toppled, Democrats cringed. When Saddam was caught, Democrats cringed. Only when it came to realization that things in Iraq were going to become more complicated than we had anticipated did the Democrats come out in full force. Why? Because by politicizing a war as an “incorrect and failed” war, it gave them an opportunity to politically seize the upper hand in office. It’s not about facts people, it never was and has been nor ever will be. It’s all about power and re-election and the Democrats were smart enough and opportunistic enough to seize the opportunity rather than work towards a solution. Instead they have spent all their energy towards attempting to turn the American people against the Republican party, hence the reason for the low approval rating of the Democrat led U.S. Congress. They aren’t accomplishing anything. I digress. They have managed to split our very country in two. Now rather than paying attention to facts, we believe political rhetoric and fight amongst ourselves as to who is right and who is wrong, all the while the suits in Washington are merely playing a political version of Monopoly and using our votes to do so.

Note From The Angry American: I do not have anything against either political affiliation, but far extremism in either direction absolutely disgusts me to the point of convulsion. I have friends on both sides of the fence and I am greatful for them, for they haven’t forgotten to be Americans.

  • Mike

    The O’Reilly-esque vitriol you’re spouting makes it difficult for someone to engage with you in a rational discussion on the issues you’ve highlighted, but I’ll try my best as a member of the far left.

    The simple facts are:
    – The methodology used to produce Petraeus’ MNFI statistics remains classified. They show a marked decrease in violence since the surge.
    – The methodology used by the Associated Press is well-publicized, using hospital, police, and military reports as well as morgue records. They do not show a decrease in violence since the surge.

    Don’t believe me? Fine, listen to a member of the General Accounting Office say the same thing at a congressional hearing (questioned by Republican Congressman Jim Saxton):

    You can read the actual GAO reports here. The takeaway message: “average daily attacks against civilians have remained unchanged from February to July 2007.”

    As the GAO member in the video states: The reason you have auditors in corporate America is because you don’t want to rely on the reports of the same people who are responsible for the execution of the task at hand.

    The same criterion should apply here, particularly if the methodology of the interested party’s reporting remains classified. That doesn’t confirm bias in the report, but inductive reasoning should at least make one skeptical of its conclusions.

    Now to address your rage-filled points:

    – Liberals do work FOR people. In this case, they’re working to preserve the lives of our military. Current casualties numbers place the number of dead servicemen well over the number who died in the September 11th attacks, all for a war engaged under false pretenses (now where were those WMD, again?).

    – I agree that ad hominem attacks on Petraeus are unnecessary…but by the same token, McCain’s ad hominem support is equally invalid. One needs only debate the merit of his questionable data. However, it should be noted that his views differ substantially from other members of the Pentagon.

    – Concerning Mitch McConnell’s quote, aren’t you sitting in the comfort of your air-conditioned office blogging your outrage? I think you’re on philosophically shaky ground here. It’s easy to support a war you don’t have to fight. As a supporter, you’re under a much greater onus to take up arms and enlist than those who oppose it.

    – The poll you cite reports its own margin of error: 3%. In other words, there’s a 95% chance that their statistical sampling differs less than 3% from the true population. You can talk about how the sample size isn’t large enough for your own satisfaction, but I’m inclined to say that the good folks at Gallup understand how statistical certainty works better than you.

    – Your reference to Jane Fonda is irrelevant and a classic case of association fallacy. Jane was traitor. Jane was a liberal. Ergo, all liberals are traitors.

    – Overall, there’s an interesting double standard running through this post, namely that news stories are always biased while military self-reporting is never biased. I’d think Vietnam would have taught us to avoid such thinking.

    Oh, and just to set the record straight, I wouldn’t vote for Clinton, as she’s not nearly liberal *enough*. I’d sooner vote for Ron Paul…at least he tells the the truth.

  • Mike

    It would seem embedding a youtube video doesn’t work in comments.
    You can watch the Congressional hearing questioning of the GAO representativehere.

  • The Angry American

    Polls are historically innacurate and worthless, and if by any gauge of logic you think the folks at gallup have an accurate view of the country’s views as a whole by simply polling little over a 1000 people…i would suggest you take a course in analytical statistics. A margin error of -3% means absolutely zilch. You have to take into account the political climate of the current U.S. populous which contains a massive amount of misinformed, overly angry propoganda induced hatred of one party or the other. For the most part unfortunately the majority of the U.S. is made up of undereducated mindless sheep who don’t have the first clue. They simply go by what they watch in the news or the read in the papers, which as a liberal I would find you hard pressed to argue is not liberaly biased in the majority. Did you know Fox News wasn’t alloowed into California for years because of it’s republican slant? I’m middle of the line, and I don’t care much for Fox News either, however to block a news entity from broadcast in a state due to political reasons, is absolutely un-american. It’s Stalin-esque. That’s implying only one point of view is allowed in that region.

    My reference to Jane Fonda is quite relevant, your closing your mind, i never made any sort of comment to any effect that I believed that all liberals were traitors. By example it shows what can occur when one chooses to beleive political propoganda as many people blindly do, that’s in inarguable point.

    As for my blogging and/or support of the war…I’m a former Air Force Veteran, the son of a Vietnam Veteran and the grandson of a World War II veteran. I do not support any wars sir, but I do infact detest making a run for it after we introduced the current civil unrest. It is our duty to help by whatever means necessary to resolve the situation, not abandon it wholly as the Democratic party has chosen to do. Does that require staying there longer? increased troop levels? I don’t know. How can anyone know? Our politicians are not letting the military do it’s job in order to facilitate accurate measures needed . Instead we rush progress reports and attack them in news media circles before we even hear the results. McCain is an idiot, we agree on that point.

    To say we entered Iraq under false pretences is absolutely moronic. WMD was just ONE of the reasons given for entering Iraq and unless you have forgotten Saddam Hussein attempted to invaid Kuwait (my older brother was on the U.S.S. Nicholson destroyer in Operation Desert Storm) and commited mass genocide in murdering Kurds. To say any sort of WMD’s did not ever exist would be equally moronic. Given the mass expanse of the region’s desert borders, anything could have been removed and we’d never know it if they had in fact existed. We entered Iraq with the intelligence of the CIA and unless you’ve missed out on the news as of late, it was the CIA under fire for giving the whitehouse and the country the wrong information. To crucify Bush and not place blame on the congress and senate for doing the same as Bush did which was relying on information he was given, not created, is like calling the kettle black.

    You sir did the same thing everyone else did at home and on capitol hill. You couldn’t wait to watch Iraq get wiped off the face of the map believing they were an iminent threat and regardless of there being WMD’s or not, they were. Saddam Hussien was proven to have been funding terrorist organizations linked to Al-Qaeda. Have you not been paying attention to the Al-Qaeda leaders in Iraq that have been uncovered and terminated in the process of the war?

    As for Vietnam, if you didn’t learn that political intervention was the resounding cause of so much unnecesary death and loss then I suggest you do some research into how they bungled the entire affair and never let the military do its job and unseat the north vietnamese government for fear of retalliation form the russian and chinese government. In fact the a year or two ago the chinese government finally came out and said they never would have intervened. The russians supplied and trained portions of the vietnamese army while denying it. Over the years declassified information has been released from both russia, china and the u.s. proving exactly that.

  • Mike

    I resent the implication that I “couldn’t wait to watch Iraq get wiped off the face of the map believing they were an iminent [sic] threat”. I knew there were no longer WMD before we occupied a sovereign nation. I knew invading Iraq was a terrible mistake with long-reaching consequences before we ever did so. For these reasons, I was part of a 15,000-person-strong protest the very day we invaded in 2003, and was almost arrested for doing so. Also for these reasons, I will not vote for a candidate who supported the authorization for war…if I was smart enough to figure it out, they should be, too.

    I also knew that abusing and weakening our military to occupy a nation which posed no threat was wrong. While I do thank you for your loyal service, I don’t understand how you can’t see that the drumbeat for war was the very same political intervention that you rail against. Are you just very bad at knowing when you’re being lied to?

    To say WMD was only one reason is to rewrite history. How many times was the phrase “smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud” uttered? Remember the faked Nigerian yellowcake documents? Remember Powell’s speech before the UN? War with Iraq had been on the table for the neo-cons for years before 9/11 ( I highly recommend you read the 1999 PNAC policy statement)…Wolfowitz admitted in the UK’s Independent that WMD was just a “convenient excuse”. Numerous reports from former CIA officials state the Bush Administration (Cheney, in particular) were not only cherry-picking intelligence, but outright manipulating intelligence to support the fallacy that Iraq was an imminent threat with terrorist ties. So yes, I do blame the Bush and his cronies for masterminding the Iraq War. I also blame Congress for their outright complacency and fear of looking unpatriotic.

    Of course there used to be WMD in Iraq – we *gave* it to them (or have you forgotten this? We provided arms support for their war with Iran in the very same manner in which the Russians provided support for Vietnam.

    As for the myth of liberal bias in the mass media, for the most part, no, I don’t see it (though I would contend that Air America is liberally-biased). The shear uncritical complacent reporting by the mass media of statements leading to the Iraq war shows they don’t have liberal bias. If anything, they are sensationally-biased for the solae purpose of increasing viewership…if it bleeds, it leads. Cable news channels had all-time highs during the first Iraq War with millions of viewers glued to their TVs. Of course they’d want a repeat of such a phenomenon.

  • Mike

    Oh, for the record, I’ve taken many, many statistics classes (I’m a scientist by trade). I can’t fathom what you mean by “A margin error of -3% means absolutely zilch.” Are you implying sampling bias? Do you know how calculation margin of error works?

    To say that “You have to take into account the political climate of the current U.S. populous which contains a massive amount of misinformed, overly angry propoganda [sic] induced hatred of one party or the other. isn’t a criticism of statistical methodology, just a statement of the population from which samples were drawn.

  • DB

    you know who else thought polls were wrong? karl rove before the 2006 mid-term election. you probably remember how that turned out, it happened that HE was wrong.

    i never realized how biased this site really is, but i’ve read like 5 straight entries now that end with something about the word discuss, and they all refer to liberals. I find nothing of the sort for republicans? have they not meritied it, with their corrupt and immoral ways?

  • The Angry American

    I’m sorry but I find it humorous that you out of all people in the entire nation KNEW that no WMD existed, despite the fact that you have zero intelligence gathering means in foreign countries. Somehow you and your magic eightball managed to know what noone else could possibly know until we searched.

    You seem to have closed your mind to the broader and details at hand and have chosen instead to focus on what you want to see rather than what there actually is to see. No I do not have to re-write history, you simply have to go back and read it, WMD was not the only reason given for the entering Iraq.

    Obviously you overlooked the most recently released CIA information released in which it was admitted tha the CIA withheld information and action regarding, Al-Qaeda, Iraq, and Saddam Hussein. The White house does not have the power nor the authority to “cherry pick and maniupulate” information as you so accuse. You have your facts wrong. This declassified informations tated that the CIA chose to ignore potential problems with both Al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein and the outgoing agent who recently retired even went so far as to testify in front of congress as well as sent a report saying that we would soon be at war and no one listend. THIS OCCURED DURING THE ADMINISTRATION OF ONE WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON. Not Bush. Now that being said I am not at all trying to defend how Bush has handled the war, he bungled it beyond doubt. To soley blame Bush and his so called “cronies” is to be completely ignorant of the rest of the FACTS. You would have to willingly choose to ignore that Clinton, Bush Sr. and the CIA all screwed up the entire process before Jr. ever came along. The problem sir is not our president, as moronic as he is, the problem is the whole damn government and it’s high time you woke up and realized it.

    Yes polls are wrong,should I ahve to remind you that the polls favored Howard Dean in his presidential bid and look what happened? He tanked. Polls don’t mean squat. Yes I am aware of how the calculation of margin of error works. I too have a college degree, mine in criminal justice. If you took these classes as you claim then you should be well aware that a margin of error of -3% in a poll of little over 1000 people doesn’t mean anything in a result that isn’t close to the middle(half) of the sum. Then maybe you can argue and worry about margin of error. It’s not even the margin that matters, it’s thinking that 1000+ opinions can possibly speak for an entire nation. Do you think they factor in the political influence of opinion based on propoganda, rhetoric and scandal? Do you think they factor in the many that choose not to offer an opinion at all? Do you think that they choose to factor in that the political climate of the area for which each person is polled in? There are so many mitigating environmental factors involved in political science, that no sir you cannot base the opinion of a country as whole on a small poll. Ask Howard Dean.

    As for DB there are discussions involved with people affiliated in different parties, but then there have been so so so many discussions and topics, you can’t gauge what 5 you saw and form an accurate opinion of the site, try checking the archives for the site. You’ll find that not maybe 5 topics ago I was in agreeance with a member of the Democratic party and in fact told her she was a liberal I could appreciate. You made a fine example for Mike’s comment on polls an opinions.

  • The Angry American

    For Mike :

    “if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons… He has also given aid, comfort and sanctuary to terrorists, including al-Qaida members.”
    – Senator(D) Hillary Clinton

    What was that you said about rewriting history? Try going back and actually reading ALL THE FACTS please.

  • David Harvey

    There’s a lot to respond to hear, but most importantly you said ‘The Bottom Line: liberals have forgotten that they are Americans first’. The thing is, they should not be ‘Americans first’. They should be ‘humans’ first. Our role is not to our country, but to morality and humanity. The whole idea of blindly serving your country is ridiculous; I’m sure that in WW2 germany people were told to serve their country and that they are Germans first. Following your country blindly (blind nationalism) CAN lead to many bad things, and easily make you the bad guy. Question your country.